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AIBU?

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Original poster

I know this is a bit morbid

173 replies

fancyginglass · 08/12/2020 18:33

But do you really think they should have given so much publicity to the first elderly people getting the vaccine? Given their age, what if something happened to them in the next few weeks? This would seriously dent the update of the vaccine and the anti-vaxers would have a field day. Obviously I wish them all well.

OP posts:
CaptainMyCaptain · 08/12/2020 20:40

@Parker231

I would hope and expect all healthcare staff to take the vaccine when it is offered to them. Why should patients be put at risk from the hospital and other healthcare staff?
All the NHS staff I know want to have it. One nurse friend had hers today.
Metallicalover · 08/12/2020 20:45

@Parker231

I would hope and expect all healthcare staff to take the vaccine when it is offered to them. Why should patients be put at risk from the hospital and other healthcare staff?
You cannot force people to be vaccinated, they're saying to not have the vaccine if your ttc, pregnant or breastfeeding. This is a large proportion of NHS staff. Also they are also saying that if your vaccinated that may not stop you spreading covid. NHS staff are wearing masks to protect their patients, most patients are not! Therefore NHS staff are most at risk. If the vaccine shows that it doesn't affect fertility etc I would definitely get the vaccine. To many of my colleagues who have had covid (mild symptoms) are now having blood pressure problems and one colleague had a stroke last week!

Also quoting other people using the analogy of a 90 year old taking up and ITU bed rather than a young person. I very much doubt it. It would be that to brutal to intubate a 90 year old and you wouldn't get a good outcome and probably never get them off a ventilator and if it was myself or my relative I would say to let nature take its course and not have to many interventions.
My grandparents are all very sensible and have DNR's in place and emergency health care plans regarding their care.

1Morewineplease · 08/12/2020 20:46

@Iamtooknackeredtorun

I'm going to mute this thread I think. It's going to make me despair I can already tell.
I'm off too.
lyralalala · 08/12/2020 20:46

Again, not quite true. While most developed symptoms within 6 months, a small number only developed them after that time. Estimates have it that you had a 2 in 100,000 chance of being unlucky, which is obviously very small, but still reasonably significant as these things go.

This still shouldn't be anywhere near enough to discourage people from having vaccinations given the evidence is overwhelmingly in their favour, but we do need to be honest about these things or it will only feed into the conspiracists narrative.

@Notthemessiah The issue of some people developing narcolepsy after receiving the Pandermix vaccine wasn't a surprised. It was a known problem before that vaccine was given. It's a very different kettle of fish

PinkBuffalo · 08/12/2020 20:48

@Finfintytint

DH did comment “Christ, I hope she doesn’t die in the next few weeks”.
I said exactly the same at work today! Hope they stay fit and well for a long time yet
Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/12/2020 20:49

If care home residents get it first...well to be quite frank, a lot of them may die from other causes in the not too distant future and how many people will end up saying oh it was the vaccine

I've been saying this for weeks ... given some of the media's utter irresponsibility, it's only a matter of time until the first headline appears about "the vaccine killed my granny"

Bewareoftheblob · 08/12/2020 20:49

@ILovemyCatsSoSoMuch

An older person isn’t just a bit/twice as vulnerable to covid - they are FOUR THOUSAND THREE HUNDRED TIMES more likely to DIE of it. Source: BMJ, I’d have to go back to check if that’s over 70 or over 80, but it was compared to age 15-24.

They are more likely to die of most things, surely?

And a 90 year old with covid wouldn't be blocking a ventilator/ICU bed, who would be so cruel as to intubate a 90 year old?

providentglue · 08/12/2020 20:51

Also quoting other people using the analogy of a 90 year old taking up and ITU bed rather than a young person. I very much doubt it. It would be that to brutal to intubate a 90 year old and you wouldn't get a good outcome and probably never get them off a ventilator and if it was myself or my relative I would say to let nature take its course and not have to many interventions.

I think you misunderstood that poster. If the 90 year old is vaccinated they do not need to let nature take its course and the 32 year old can still have the ITU bed. It wasn't a who lives and who dies choice there. It was a keep the beds clear by vaccination. There is no need to let a 90 year old get covid and die

Bewareoftheblob · 08/12/2020 20:51

And the BBC today - the old guy, 98, bone cancer, voice over: 'now Fred can start to plan for his future'? Hmm

Bewareoftheblob · 08/12/2020 20:53

@providentglue

Also quoting other people using the analogy of a 90 year old taking up and ITU bed rather than a young person. I very much doubt it. It would be that to brutal to intubate a 90 year old and you wouldn't get a good outcome and probably never get them off a ventilator and if it was myself or my relative I would say to let nature take its course and not have to many interventions.

I think you misunderstood that poster. If the 90 year old is vaccinated they do not need to let nature take its course and the 32 year old can still have the ITU bed. It wasn't a who lives and who dies choice there. It was a keep the beds clear by vaccination. There is no need to let a 90 year old get covid and die

But it's okay if they die of flu, or dementia, or all the other things that old people are not dying of at the moment?

Why this obsession with having everyone live on and on?

sausageroom · 08/12/2020 20:56

But it's okay if they die of flu, or dementia, or all the other things that old people are not dying of at the moment?

I would absolutely love to see where I, or anyone else, has suggested this?

Why this obsession with having everyone live on and on?

Speechless at this Sad

NikeDeLaSwoosh · 08/12/2020 20:57

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

It's literally to stop the nhs caving. Very old people are most likely to get Covid seriously and require terrifically expensive, bed hogging intensive care treatment, furthermore they are then notoriously difficult to actually get back out of hospital again.

Vaccinating these older people is the quickest way for us to get back to something approaching normal life

Very old people are not obliged to go to hospital if they are diagnosed with Covid.

They do have the choice not to take up that bed and leave it free for a younger person.

5zeds · 08/12/2020 20:58

Life expectancy 4.6 years for a 90 year old woman in the uk.

sausageroom · 08/12/2020 20:59

Very old people are not obliged to go to hospital if they are diagnosed with Covid.

They do have the choice not to take up that bed and leave it free for a younger person.

Sad

My god. What a sick post.

Bewareoftheblob · 08/12/2020 21:00

@sausageroom

But it's okay if they die of flu, or dementia, or all the other things that old people are not dying of at the moment?

I would absolutely love to see where I, or anyone else, has suggested this?

Why this obsession with having everyone live on and on?

Speechless at this Sad

In the sense of why is dying of covid so bloody special? No one moaned and bitched when it was flu carrying off the old folk.

Be speechless if you like.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 08/12/2020 21:00

Just when you think you've seen it all on MN this thread comes along. There are some fucking awful comments on here.

LaceyBetty · 08/12/2020 21:01

Yes, DH and I said the same. Not at all that a 90 year old shouldn't have been first in line, I think she should have been, but unfortunately we are all looking for this vaccine to be a saving grace and if anything happens to her in the near future...I can see the anti-vaxxers out in full force.

Notthemessiah · 08/12/2020 21:02

@lyralalala

Again, not quite true. While most developed symptoms within 6 months, a small number only developed them after that time. Estimates have it that you had a 2 in 100,000 chance of being unlucky, which is obviously very small, but still reasonably significant as these things go.

This still shouldn't be anywhere near enough to discourage people from having vaccinations given the evidence is overwhelmingly in their favour, but we do need to be honest about these things or it will only feed into the conspiracists narrative.

@Notthemessiah The issue of some people developing narcolepsy after receiving the Pandermix vaccine wasn't a surprised. It was a known problem before that vaccine was given. It's a very different kettle of fish

OK, thanks - I wasn't aware of that, yes that does make a difference. I presume the lawsuits surrounding it were that this wan't made properly clear when people were being given it?
NikeDeLaSwoosh · 08/12/2020 21:02

@sausageroom

But it's okay if they die of flu, or dementia, or all the other things that old people are not dying of at the moment?

I would absolutely love to see where I, or anyone else, has suggested this?

Why this obsession with having everyone live on and on?

Speechless at this Sad

I agree that the idea of attempting to live forever is a bizarre one, but strangely a staggering number of people seem to have bought into it.

I’m genuinely worried about the mental health of several friends when their parents do pass away. It’s as if this idea is just too awful to contemplate and therefore everything must be thrown at artificially keeping very elderly people alive well past their natural lifespan.

Nottherealslimshady · 08/12/2020 21:02

Actually a very good point.
Its alright saying it wasn't caused by the vaccine but it will scare people. If she has a stroke tonight then alot of older people are going to be shaken and less willing to have it.

NikeDeLaSwoosh · 08/12/2020 21:04

@sausageroom

Very old people are not obliged to go to hospital if they are diagnosed with Covid.

They do have the choice not to take up that bed and leave it free for a younger person.

Sad

My god. What a sick post.

Why is it sick?

We can’t keep all 8 billion people on the planet alive forever, I’d have thought that was obvious.

I doubt this is the last pandemic we will see. We will have to face up to this reality sooner or later.

lyralalala · 08/12/2020 21:05

OK, thanks - I wasn't aware of that, yes that does make a difference. I presume the lawsuits surrounding it were that this wan't made properly clear when people were being given it?

@Notthemessiah It's what's making the legal issues drag on and on and on.

There is someone in my DD's narcolepsy support group (DD didn't get it from the vaccine, to be clear) who still hasn't received a penny in compensation for it, although the Narcolepsy charity involved seem to think the last case should finally get everything moving.

Metallicalover · 08/12/2020 21:05

@Bewareoftheblob this is the point I was trying to make.
I don't want anything to happen to my grandparents who are all around the age of 90 but know that they're very lucky to reach that age and I'm lucky to have them but in the next few years they will die.
It's the circle of life. They'll get vaccinated for covid like they do for the flu vaccination but something else will kill them.
I don't know why people are shocked about elderly people not going to hospital if they get covid! It's true! People have emergency healthcare plans and a lot of peoples plans are not to be admitted to hospital under any circumstances! They wish to be cared for at home. For my grandad with advanced dementia the upheaval alone going to hospital to be assessed would distress him and probably kill him.

Nottherealslimshady · 08/12/2020 21:08

Although I agree with the people talking about artificially trying to beat death and keep people alive, in not great condition, for as long as possible.

Covid is a particularly awful way to die, its painful and scary and you have to have those horrible things on your head and your family cant hold your hand and share all their happy memories at your bedside.

If our medicine and technology can do anything it should be being used to allow people to die with dignity before their body and mind deteriorate beyond recognition.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 08/12/2020 21:10

It’s as if this idea is just too awful to contemplate and therefore everything must be thrown at artificially keeping very elderly people alive well past their natural lifespan

And under any circumstances.

A 90 year old who is comparatively independent and esp. if mentally alert has a decent quality of life: one with severe emphysema or with dementia doesn't. I can see the argument in pulling out all the stops for one, but letting nature take its course with the other

I just think if it was me, and I had good quality of life, I'd want to be helped - but if I didn't, I wouldn't.