Parents staying together for the child?

[Lissy23]

Me and my partner (not married) have a 2 year old and are looking at separating, as things just aren’t working out.
I was brought up in a household where my parents stayed together but argued constantly and never really got on.
My mum was a SAHM and I remember her often telling me and my brother that if she had the money she’d run away and take us with her.
My dad ended up having an affair when I was in my late teens, but she forgave him and they’re still together now, but trust issues will always be there.
When I spoke to her about my relationship breaking down recently, she basically made it clear that she thought we should stay together for our DS and that we were selfish for considering otherwise. And that young people are so quick to give up without trying these days etc etc.
I said I felt that two people civilly co parenting, but not together as a couple, was better than two people living together and in a ‘relationship’ but ending up detesting each other and continually arguing in front of the child.
She also said to me I was to expect ‘behavioural problems’ from DS it we separate.

I just want the best for our son.

My parents split up and I had a brilliant childhood.

Obviously it can be difficult for children to split their time between two homes. But I'm sure it's better to have two separated parents who are happy than two miserable parents who are forcing themselves to stay together.

As long as both parents continue to put their child first (being careful when choosing new partners/considering whether to have more children, keeping to contact arrangements, and at least appearing to be civil with one another), most children are fine so please consider your happiness too!

Its a very old fashion way of thinking, dont divorce, stay together for the children.

I wish my parents hadn't, it was a horrible toxic environment to grow up in, and what is it teaching your kids, like you now, considering staying in a marriage you know isn't working, for another 16 years for your child.

There is nothing wrong with splitting up, and co parenting, good luck.

I’m glad my parents divorced.

A friend is successfully doing the stay together thing. I suspect that’s rare though.

Staying together and raising children in a toxic environment and giving them dysfunctional models of relationships is not for the benefit of any child.

They are staying for their own selfish reasons and blaming the child. Which is despicable.

Definitely leave. The research evidence shows that if you leave before the child is seven, they aren't really affected. Your child will quickly adapt at 2. You are lucky to be able to leave. Even luckier that your child is so young when you are doing it. I guarantee you that you will all be happier, you, your child and your partner if you leave and go and live your best lives.

I said I felt that two people civilly co parenting, but not together as a couple, was better than two people living together and in a ‘relationship’ but ending up detesting each other and continually arguing in front of the child.

I agree with this, but also your mum's sentiment that people don't always try hard enough to salvage the relationship (not saying that applies to you, by the way - I have no idea what you've already done in terms of this). When there are no children involved, you're free to walk away whenever you want. If you have kids together, you owe it to them to try and work through it and be sure that there's no future before you split - i.e. not end it just because you've hit a rough patch. (Assuming that we're talking about things like disagreements and incompatibility, that is - abuse and infidelity are a whole other kettle of fish)

If the relationship is bad enough that you're considering separating, then a child in the mix is immaterial.
And with respect, your DM's relationship history makes her opinions on what you should or shouldn't do laughable.

I disagree completely with your mum.

Don't stay together for the kids, split up for the kids.

Show them what a happy relationship is, what they should aspire to, that they are never stuck in a miserable situation, they have control of their lives.

Most relationships don't end too soon. Most go on for way too long. My Dm and Df included.

They are staying for their own selfish reasons and blaming the child. Which is despicable

This is unfair. You don't know the circumstances, resources or inside the hearts of anyone else. The decisions people make our complex, within complex and individual circumstances, and it is unfair to say parents who don't make the choices you would aren't genuinely trying to put their children first.

If you’re actively unhappy and you want to pursue lives separately and build something new then yes I think it’s better to separate.

Fwiw DH and I love each other but hardly see each other (20 mins a day max), have nothing in common (all the stuff we shared has been lost over 2 shit pregnancy’s a small baby and covid), and haven’t had sex in months (pregnancy complications).

I think a lot of people in our situation would think there was no ‘relationship’ left really. We are just co parents and occasional friends (when he’s around which is rare). But neither of us as unhappy or want to pursue a future elsewhere so we just carry on like this, being parents!

My parents divorced. They were and still are the best of friends.

I realise though how incredibly rare it is. It’s incredibly damaging to stay together for the sake of the child. There’s hundreds of studies done on it.

There's a balance here, splitting up as soon as you disagree on things or the lustful initial stage wears off is not a great approach to long term relationships but if after working through your differences you want different things in life then amicably splitting can be the best way forward. I split with my h of 20 years and everything has worked out well for me but one of the kids is struggling far more than the other

An alternative view - relationships with small children can be awful. When they’re bigger and you’re less tired you might refind each other. How was it before children?

Old school thinking.

I don’t think it’s necessarily a terrible thing to stay together for the kids, depends on the relationship.

However, your mother made a particular decision and wants you to make the same to validate hers. Her position is very biased, so bear that in mind.

the research is that children fair best in low conflict situations. So if parents can stay together without conflict, that is likely the best thing but if they are constantly arguing, it would be better they lived separately and the children moved between them in whatever pattern seems appropriate for age/work schedules etc.

Old school thinking

I think there is little doubt it is best for children if their parents are able to be together and work as a team. Unfortunately, so many parents can't manage that (and never could, it's only recently with benefits and the lack stigma around single parenting that means parents have gone their separate ways) and so there is again little doubt that living separtely with a good co-parenting arrangement is best.

I think you are presenting a false set of options. It's not be miserable and argue vs be fulfilled and happy.

A lot of people in my parents generation divorced, it was really the first generation where it became a big thing. The conventional wisdom became "it is better for the kids to be with happy fulfilled parents."

It absolutely affected the kids. My parents divorced when I was six and my sister three. It affected me somewhat and my sister quite a lot, and has continued to do so throughout her life. In this case it probably wasn't a fixable situation as it was addiction related, but my parents carried on having a pretty good parenting relationship and put the kids first, and my mother remarried in a very solid relationship. That's one example but by no means unusual and you can find plenty of reflections of kids who grew up in that period talking about how divorce affected them.

I think a lot of what it comes down to is the phrase you used "not working out." Does that mean one person is a drug addict, a serial adulterer, spends all the money? Divorce is almost certainly the best option. Is it something else? Harder to say - I think many people have very unrealistic expectations of marriage and the amount of work it takes for them to function well. Your mum seems to agree and maybe has some experience to draw on with that.

She's almost certainly correct that there will be some kind of behavioural fallout from your child whether there is good reason for divorce or not.

Mn tends to favour leaving. That is not intended critically but rather to illustrate the answers are one sided.

When there is abuse - and obviously abuse isn’t just physical - it is undeniably better for parents to split.

Other cases? I’m not so sure. When it’s love that’s turned / waned to friendship, or one party has lost their sex drive, or there’s a busy period at work and things are difficult, I’m not really in favour of the partnership ending. It is detrimental to the child, and isn’t ideal.

But it’s up to the individuals concerned.

I discussed this with a bunch of old school friends a few years ago. I was the only kid in my class from a one parent family, but the parents of nearly half of my school friends divorced by the time we’d finished uni. Most of them said they had stayed together for the kids and now the kids were grown it was time for them to get their lives back. Some of my friends were shocked, had no idea their parents didn’t want to be together. Some wished their parents had divorced years ago as the arguments/nagging/affairs had been awful. A couple thought their own childhoods had been better but there parents had paid too heavy a price.

It was a fascinating conversation, looking back (with a couple of decades of hindsight) at what things had been like for us and our parents. Thinking about how it related to our own relationships and children. Comparing childhoods.

I think there can be benefits to parents staying together. The financial and emotional fall out of separating can be significant and have a really detrimental impact on children’s lives. But it’s only any good, for the kids, if the parents can get on well. If there is arguing and emotional turmoil, disrespect, violence, or any sort of passive aggressive digs at each other than that’s going to permeate the whole of the household and make for a really poor environment for anyone to live in.

I always thought that staying together for the children was a terrible idea but as I’ve gotten older I have witnessed many friends leave relationships only to regret it later. I have friends who drift from relationship to relationship because they think if they find ‘the one’ life will be like a permanently honeymoon.

I think there is too much emphasis on the romance and lust aspects of a relationships which isn’t sustainable long term, especially when you throw kids into the mix. Yes of course you can’t be romantic and fancy each other in a long term relationship but those first few months of getting to know each other, when everything’s is new and exciting, that can’t last forever.

I think, if there are no underlying issues (abuse, infidelity etc...) then trying save a relationship is not necessarily a bad thing.

I’m torn. The fallout for the child can be awful. I know people talk about successful co-parenting but I’ve been the child and it can be awful. Especially if you don’t get on to start with. On the other hand, if you’re fighting all the time that’s not good either. And obviously with a young child I’m assuming you’re still quite young, so there might well be the possibility for both of you to go on to have much happier relationships.

of course you can’t be romantic and fancy each other in a long term relationship

News to me.

I think it depends. There's some truth in what's been said about people having unrealistic expectations of long term relationships. On the whole I come down on the side of 'leave if you're unhappy' - but that's with the caveat that you should always put children first once you have them. That means not flitting from relationship to relationship after a split because you can't handle doing it alone. Children need stability - whether in a family with two parents or in a single parent family.

I think your mother is wrong to say that behavioural fallout is inevitable - there's no evidence for that.

FWIW some older women are very 'save the marriage at all cost'. My own mother was like that - when my alcoholic almost ex-husband died 8 months after being made to leave the family home (with police involvement), one of the first things she said to me was 'Oh, but how will you ever cope without him?'. Very nicely, thanks, mum. But there is still this belief that women need to be in a relationship to be fulfilled. We don't.

I’m on the fence.
I’m still unpicking the lint of my parents awful marriage out of my own relationship, so I can understand the harm that’s done by staying.
However, if dh and I were not parents I think we would have gone our separate ways by now, but being parents is a big motivation for working on our relationship. But it is a good relationship - just not a perfect or effortless one.

I think social pressure has swung from staying regardless to leaving when it would be much more beneficial all round if there was more awareness of how to find a decent partner (and avoid the bad ones), what a good relationship looks like and how to nurture one.

If you’re interested (for the next time) I’ve found these resources good.

Gottmann Institute
shark cage

@PrincessNutNutRoast sorry I meant you can be romantic. Fat fingers on phone. Although i thought it was clear that’s what I meant, in context.

You just can’t have the getting to know each other stage again, once you know each other.