AIBU to ask you to read this, and then think twice before you make any unnecessary journeys by car?

[ArcheryAnnie]

I'm not talking about those essential trips where you are transporting a wardrobe/tools of the trade/someone with mobility difficulties/fourteen tiny children/etc etc etc. I'm talking about all those local trips where it's just you, and you aren't going far, and walking might add on a bit of time to your chores, but walking or cycling would also avoid one more car on the road for that day.

(I so, so feel for the grieving mother in this story, below. I live on a main road and now that I've learned more about things like this, I really worry about the effect that it's had on my son's lung development when he was smaller.)

Court ruling about nine year old who died of an asthma attack.

"...lawyers for the family presented new evidence to the attorney general that directly linked Ella’s serious form of asthma and her death with the heavy traffic on the South Circular near her home. Her death coincided with one of the worst air pollution surges in her local area."

www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/07/mother-asthma-death-girl-knew-nothing-toxic-air-ella-kissi-debrah-london?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

@Dongdingdong

Why do you imagine you're not inhaling fumes?

I don’t know - it may be misguided, but somehow it just feels “safer” to be inside a contained environment than cycling alongside a lorry or bus that is belching fumes out of its exhaust right next to your face!

Sorry, but it is a false sense of security I think, although I fully understand. The front of a car is directly behind the vehicle in front so gets direct exhaust fumes.

Even a single metre makes a massive difference to fumes - so being 1 metre to the side of a car is better than being directly behind.

Plus often cyclists pass through congested areas quicker.

Sorry, but it is a false sense of security I think, although I fully understand. The front of a car is directly behind the vehicle in front so gets direct exhaust fumes.

You’d have thought the car would act as some sort of barrier though? Cyclists and pedestrians have no barrier!

If it acted as a barrier to air you'd suffocate

@Dongdingdong

@TheNighthawk so if you walk into a country pub on a freezing cold winter’s day and they have a lovely fire burning in the grate, do you turn around and walk out? I’m asking you because I asked another poster who is anti woodburners but they haven’t responded yet. I await your response.

Yes. I would also photograph it and the smoke from the chimney outside, (and the pub sign) for future use.

Using a car to supposedly protect yourself from pollution, whilst simultaneously creating more pollution, is terrible logic.

Yes. I would also photograph it and the smoke from the chimney outside, (and the pub sign) for future use.

@TheNighthawk Future use? In what way? Sounds rather sinister.

"Eg just tonight there was a young woman tried to get on the bus while it was waiting at a stop with the driver outside smoking a fag. (Yes, in the rain and dark etc.) He told her her return ticket wasn't good because it was for a different bus company. Same route, same stop, but she couldn't get on and had to wait for a bus from the company that issued her ticket in the morning."

Good lord, that is shite. So glad I live in London!

I'm in the north east and this is the norm where I live. If I've paid Company A for a two way journey, I can't demand company B, who doesn't get the money I've paid to company a, to provide part of it for free.

Same with my daughters school bus pass. I pay company A for her to travel using their service. She can't then use than bus pass for free travel on an entirely different company's busses. She has to wait for the company who we've actually paid for her to use even though they use the same stops and the same routes. Or, if she'd rather use another business than the one we've prepaid for then she stumps up and pays for it.

[quote TheNighthawk]**@Dongdingdong

@TheNighthawk so if you walk into a country pub on a freezing cold winter’s day and they have a lovely fire burning in the grate, do you turn around and walk out? I’m asking you because I asked another poster who is anti woodburners but they haven’t responded yet. I await your response.

Yes. I would also photograph it and the smoke from the chimney outside, (and the pub sign) for future use.[/quote]
Future use in what way?

[quote LakieLady]@Tomorrowistomorrow, the rise in council tax is because central government funding to local authorities has been cut by around 60% since 2010. Councils have had to cut services and make up the shortfall from council tax, and at a time where the spending on adult social care has massively increased because people are living longer.[/quote]
The central government funding also comes from me -the taxpayer.

The majority of care homes are PRIVATE. -84%. Care home operators made £2 billion profit last year.

Or, if she'd rather use another business than the one we've prepaid for then she stumps up and pays for it.

Thing is though, no one has ever said to themselves "ooh I fancy a treat. Let's go on bus company b rather than bus company a". You just want to go where you're going. Getting there via a bus owned by a different millionaire from the bus in front owned by a different millionaire isn't an exercise in consumer choice.

It's bullshit.

If bus companies could work together they could recharge each other. Like banks do when we use cash machines that belong to a different bank from the one we bank with. The end user need not be affected, they could sort it out between them. They'd have to factor it into the pricing but it would probably be worth it for most people if it gave them more flexibility.

Yes that definitely should happen. It's certainly a better scenario than people who have bought a ticket being left in the rain by a bus that's going their way to their stop just because it's the wrong kind of ticket.

@Dongdingdong. You asked if I'd walk out of a country pub if they had a wood burner on.
In a London pub (or other city), absolutely. There is no reason for them to be using one and it is making our air even worse and I would not want to give them my money.

In the countryside, I suppose they could be off the gas grid although this is pretty rare in southern England. But if I was pregnant or with small children or anyone with asthma/respiratory diseases, I would not sit inside with a wood burner under any circumstances.

Yes if people use them once or twice a year, then it's not heightening their risk greatly. But they are expensive and anyone installing them is much more likely to be using them regularly during the winter after having splashed the cash on one. They should just be banned in cities to prevent that temptation

@Dongdingdong

Yes. I would also photograph it and the smoke from the chimney outside, (and the pub sign) for future use.

@TheNighthawk Future use? In what way? Sounds rather sinister.

Well, if you will be so goady........

The problem is the lack of alternatives. Its always the Londoners who think no one should use a car. We don't all have access to public transport!

Private car ownership has raged out of control. The number of vehicles registered in the U.K. in the last 20 years had doubled. But the population hasn’t doubled. So of course there is more traffic and increasing levels of pollution. New cars are becoming larger so gains in engine efficiency are being offset. It’s all a sorry state of affairs. We are a car-sick nation.

If I had a child with chronic asthma I would move to countryside.

@caringcarer

If I had a child with chronic asthma I would move to countryside.

You are very lucky to be wealthy enough to just leave your work and move home!

@caringcarer

If I had a child with chronic asthma I would move to countryside.

Because it’s always that easy isn’t it!

I commuted through a city by bike from my rural home for 3 years but my asthma got worse and worse to the point I had to stop, my chest was so bad I literally couldn't cycle without stopping frequently to take inhalers and catch my breath. I had no choice but to resort back to driving some days (the bus involved long walks too so didn't help).

There definitely is a bigger solution needed than putting the onus on the individual to solve this.

I would never live in a city with DC after what I experienced. However that means living somewhere where you become reliant on a car

Yes this is terrible but posts worded like yours just get peoples backs up, they don’t help the cause .

The sad piece for me is they were so
Close to a permanently busy and highly used ring road
Any Londoners knows that the north and south circulars are never quiet and have frequent traffic jams
It’s as risky a location for pollution as you can get really

yy @wellthatsunusual employers need to be more flexible. I was very lucky when I started my job, they were desperate and I was able to negotiate a 9:30 start time so I could walk after the school drop off, 2 miles each way. Losing 2 hours pay was worth it as that would only have gone on petrol and car wear and tear.

Losing 2 hours pay a week that is.

I thought smokeless fuel was ok in wood burners? Not that I have one