AIBU to ask you to read this, and then think twice before you make any unnecessary journeys by car?

[ArcheryAnnie]

I'm not talking about those essential trips where you are transporting a wardrobe/tools of the trade/someone with mobility difficulties/fourteen tiny children/etc etc etc. I'm talking about all those local trips where it's just you, and you aren't going far, and walking might add on a bit of time to your chores, but walking or cycling would also avoid one more car on the road for that day.

(I so, so feel for the grieving mother in this story, below. I live on a main road and now that I've learned more about things like this, I really worry about the effect that it's had on my son's lung development when he was smaller.)

Court ruling about nine year old who died of an asthma attack.

"...lawyers for the family presented new evidence to the attorney general that directly linked Ella’s serious form of asthma and her death with the heavy traffic on the South Circular near her home. Her death coincided with one of the worst air pollution surges in her local area."

www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/07/mother-asthma-death-girl-knew-nothing-toxic-air-ella-kissi-debrah-london?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

But cars shouldn't be compared to current UK transport systems - which are deliberately shit. There is huge.potential. Look at the prices in Europe - including free in some parts of Germany. That's a political choice.

I agree with you about the huge potential - but until public transport improves massively, people will continue to use cars.

And regarding the political choice - the Tories have actually brought forward the ban on sales of new diesel and petrol cars to 2030. There was a thread on AIBU recently about it and the majority of posters were up in arms.

@PiersMorgansYogaTeacher

I haven't berated anyone, I never do.

I just genuinely think cars are shit. My city is ruined by them - and people regularly sit in them for as long as it takes to walk the same journey.

But I struggled to give mine up too.

And regarding the political choice - the Tories have actually brought forward the ban on sales of new diesel and petrol cars to 2030

This is driven by the car lobby, who are going that way anyway and keen to promote expensive personal transport over mass transport or pooled resources.

Electric cars are better than fossil fuel - but mass transit is so much better.

Electric cars are not the answer. About 50% of emissions are from tyres and brakes so they are not sufficiently better for cities. Ending reliance on private cars in cities, (and others to only use them for journeys of over a mile) is the only way.
Obviously this does not apply to anyone who lives 3 miles from the nearest bus stop etc as traffic volumes in rural areas will be low enough that air quality remains good even if people do drive.

@BefuddledPerson oh I didn't mean that you personally are berating - of course you're not! But there's a fair bit of it on this thread from people who probably aren't at the mercy of appalling public transport on a daily basis. And I live in a city! It's shit enough here, never mind for people who are less urban.

Have to say that privatisation hasn't helped matters. I'm old enough to remember when public transport was publicly owned and it was better and cheaper then.

Eg just tonight there was a young woman tried to get on the bus while it was waiting at a stop with the driver outside smoking a fag. (Yes, in the rain and dark etc.) He told her her return ticket wasn't good because it was for a different bus company. Same route, same stop, but she couldn't get on and had to wait for a bus from the company that issued her ticket in the morning.

It was city centre (so she'll likely have been able to get a bus eventually) and I was already cold, sleeted on and fucked off otherwise I would have probably offered to pay for her myself, but it's that kind of grinding crapness that you see every day on the bus. Of course people drive.

@PiersMorgansYogaTeacher

I agree that public transport is decidedly below par! We try so hard to use trains and sometimes it feels they don't want us.

@SnackSizeRaisin yes absolutely!

I always pick cycling over the car if at all possible, but honestly it's mostly because I love it and it's good for me rather than environmental guilt - that's just a bonus. Got a trailer for the kids or they ride their own bikes if we can't go slow. It makes me feel good and keeps me reasonably fit and healthy. On short journeys what you lose in travelling speed you often make up in quick (free) parking right outside the destination or, in winter, not having to scrape the windscreen. Also I don't really like sitting in a car!

I'm not very convinced that guilt is a good motivation for long-term change (in more areas than just environmentalism). It might be more effective to rather focus on what is brilliant about active transport..

About 50% of emissions are from tyres and brakes so they are not sufficiently better for cities.

I see the anti electric vehicle lobby has turned up. Source for this please?

Eg just tonight there was a young woman tried to get on the bus while it was waiting at a stop with the driver outside smoking a fag. (Yes, in the rain and dark etc.) He told her her return ticket wasn't good because it was for a different bus company. Same route, same stop, but she couldn't get on and had to wait for a bus from the company that issued her ticket in the morning.

Good lord, that is shite. So glad I live in London!

@TheNighthawk so if you walk into a country pub on a freezing cold winter’s day and they have a lovely fire burning in the grate, do you turn around and walk out? I’m asking you because I asked another poster who is anti woodburners but they haven’t responded yet. I await your response.

It makes me feel good and keeps me reasonably fit and healthy.

When I see cyclists and kids riding their bikes in London and inhaling all those fumes, it doesn’t look like they’re keeping fit and healthy to me.

It’s a fair post
I drove to the gym today as it was ‘too cold’
For gods sake
But Every little counts here , it all adds up

Poor little girl

'anti electric vehicle lobby' says the pro electric vehicle lobby!

@Dongdingdong

It makes me feel good and keeps me reasonably fit and healthy.

When I see cyclists and kids riding their bikes in London and inhaling all those fumes, it doesn’t look like they’re keeping fit and healthy to me.

The worst air is inside the car and sitting on your arse is always worse for you than moving.

@Dongdingdong

It makes me feel good and keeps me reasonably fit and healthy.

When I see cyclists and kids riding their bikes in London and inhaling all those fumes, it doesn’t look like they’re keeping fit and healthy to me.

but an adult cycling with a child s at least one car worth less pollution in the road.

there are also studies about airquality that show that pollution inside cars is a lot higher tgan outside.

The worst air is inside the car and sitting on your arse is always worse for you than moving.

Disagree. I’d rather be sat in a car on the north circular than cycling along it and inhaling all those fumes any day of the week!

there are also studies about airquality that show that pollution inside cars is a lot higher tgan outside

Really? I find that hard to believe, but if you have a link to the evidence I’m happy to stand corrected.

'anti electric vehicle lobby' says the pro electric vehicle lobby!

Why wouldn’t any sane person who cares about the environment be pro electric? It’s not a perfect solution granted, but if we were all driving electric it would cut emissions and pollution enormously. What is your solution for people living in rural areas, if it isn’t electric cars?

@Dongdingdong

there are also studies about airquality that show that pollution inside cars is a lot higher tgan outside

Really? I find that hard to believe, but if you have a link to the evidence I’m happy to stand corrected.

Air pollution more harmful to children in cars than outside, warns top scientist Exclusive: Walking or cycling to school is better for children’s health as cars are ‘boxes collecting toxic gases’ says David King

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jun/12/children-risk-air-pollution-cars-former-uk-chief-scientist-warns

@Dongdingdong

The worst air is inside the car and sitting on your arse is always worse for you than moving.

Disagree. I’d rather be sat in a car on the north circular than cycling along it and inhaling all those fumes any day of the week!

That's fine as you are at liberty to do as you like.

When you are sat in your car, where do you think the air you breathe comes from ? Why do you imagine you're not inhaling fumes?

@pinkbalconyrailing thanks. Well that is surprising! As I say, happy to stand corrected.

I drive a car on occasion but like many have made choices that minimise it's use. Walk or cycle to the local school and mostly cycle to work. Use public transport where possible. We have one family car only. Occasionally I have to work further away or late evenings so I need the car for that. And it's convenient to visit family or go on trips to the countryside as well.

I sometimes can't believe we as a society are in this horrible situation with cars. Sure they're convenient but I hate them. The roads I walk the kids to school along have narrow crowded pavements. The speed limit is 20 but many drivers exceed this and are going between 30-40. I am constantly paranoid my 4 &6 year old may forget, step into the road and be hit. A preschool child was killed by a car locally recently absolutely horrible. The fumes as well are awful sometimes the smell of it, the impact on cognitive development and adult dementia as well as breathing problems. We need to demand a better paradigm, not electric cars for all, it won't solve all the problems. Encourage local schooling. Make cycle infrastructure much better and more capability for e-scooters and low cost mobility solutions. Promote car sharing schemes. Encourage reducing business travel as much as possible - COVID should have shown the way. Massively invest in public transport. People also have to be prepared to give up the car as a way of life and not expect to jump in the car for every single journey. The number of people I know who regularly drive rather than walk 10-30 minutes for no reason other than laziness. Or think they are too important or special to get on a bus!

Why do you imagine you're not inhaling fumes?

I don’t know - it may be misguided, but somehow it just feels “safer” to be inside a contained environment than cycling alongside a lorry or bus that is belching fumes out of its exhaust right next to your face!

@BefuddledPerson at least with trains you get a refund! I don't think I've done a train journey in the last few years that hasn't involved some kind of compensation for delay. It's really easy to claim now too: you just sit on the train and paste the delay code into your text to the train company.

Ofc, that also means that none of the trains I've been on have arrived on time...

I admit I don't live anywhere near London. I live on the outskirts of a mid-size city.

Cycling for transport absolutely does make me feel good and help keep me fit and healthy. I'm keen to pass on the lifestyle to my kids as well.

A preschool child was killed by a car locally recently absolutely horrible. The fumes as well are awful sometimes the smell of it, the impact on cognitive development and adult dementia as well as breathing problems.

That is just awful. Agree the fume smell is vile.