Help me with my mother. AIBU to go no contact?

[Jakey056]

OK. Long story.
Very difficult family. My dad passed away 15 years ago. Two siblings not talking to me for past three years. My mother is 83. Difficult but 'sweet' exterior. Silently undermines. Very self centred. Gets very sad about sibling non contact 'If only' etc. Despite the fact that she is allowing it and playing one off the other.
My third sibling is like me - exhausted by the drama.
I do my best to stay non engaged. Minimum contact etc.
I do sometimes feel sorry for her but she really affects my physical health and mental health. I go see her one weekend in four. I will have stress that weekend and the following week I will have headaches etc.

I ended up experiencing sexual abuse outside of the home, alcohol dependency, drug addiction all now thankfully passed and recovered. I have a fairly stable home an marriage (usual ups and downs) but I have for the main part successfully not brought my family of origin stuff to my kids.

Extensive psychotherapy worked well for me.

Just feel I cannot go on with this like this. Its awful but I wish she were dead at times.

Choices are:

Learn to cope better
Disengage
Go no contact
Challenge
Try repair relationship.

What do people do??

Please be kind, I'm a guy but I get very very traumatised by this.
Christmas is very difficult.

Thank you.

Can you talk your options through with your psychotherapist? Or are you not seeing them any more? It sounds like you need a coping strategy in place, and to reduce contact as much as possible - I.e. from every 4 weeks to every 6 and for less time. If you have already done this and its still not helping then no contact may be your option.

I think a lot of people will relate to how you feel, and how this relationship is having nothing but a negative impact on your wellbeing. You must not feel guilty for putting yourself and your needs first.

What will your plans be for Christmas normally - would you spend it with her or do you have alternatives?

No contact simple as that...Honestly, its not her place to manage your relationship with your sibilings.I'm not sure if your comment about her " allowing" your sibilings to cut you out is the same as her playing you against each other. Drug and alcohol addiction doesn't just affect you. It affects your family also. I would have cut you out for the drugs and alcohol addiction also. I will not put up with that drama again. If my mom had interfered with my going no contact with you she would have been cut out too. I don't play monkey in the middle and I definitely do not put up with triangulation either

I went NC over a decade ago and it's been truly wonderful. No more having to pretend what a wonderful mother she was every birthday and Christmas, otherwise she'd sulk, no more having to deal with her constant put downs, undermining and negativity. No more of the "we don't get on because you're too much like your x aunty' (we dont get on because you keep saying shit like that etc)

Anyway, as I was saying. You don't owe her anything. Imagine a life free of her negative influence on your life and make it happen.

I’d go NC. Literally nothing to lose and everything to gain.

NC is the most extreme of the range of options you’ve posted, and IMO not to be taken lightly. Are you still seeing your therapist? It sounds like something to explore in therapy.

@Leaannb

No contact simple as that...Honestly, its not her place to manage your relationship with your sibilings.I'm not sure if your comment about her " allowing" your sibilings to cut you out is the same as her playing you against each other. Drug and alcohol addiction doesn't just affect you. It affects your family also. I would have cut you out for the drugs and alcohol addiction also. I will not put up with that drama again. If my mom had interfered with my going no contact with you she would have been cut out too. I don't play monkey in the middle and I definitely do not put up with triangulation either

@Leaannb Thank you. Great points. On the drug and alcohol part - I did not really have that much contact with my family at that point as I lived in another country. It was something I did myself to deal with trauma. Once I got together with my wife it was pretty clear it was a big issue and one which I needed to address. My mother and family would have seen very little of the effects of that period of my life. Thank you for your comment and viewpoint.

@sittingpondering

NC is the most extreme of the range of options you’ve posted, and IMO not to be taken lightly. Are you still seeing your therapist? It sounds like something to explore in therapy.

@sittingpondering Thats what I am afraid of. Backlash. Guilt Feeling that I should have tried harder or differently Despair when she dies Causing pain when theres already lots there She is not an evil person just very difficult at times and has also had difficulty.

Hard to think through.

@Treacletoots

I went NC over a decade ago and it's been truly wonderful. No more having to pretend what a wonderful mother she was every birthday and Christmas, otherwise she'd sulk, no more having to deal with her constant put downs, undermining and negativity. No more of the "we don't get on because you're too much like your x aunty' (we dont get on because you keep saying shit like that etc)

Anyway, as I was saying. You don't owe her anything. Imagine a life free of her negative influence on your life and make it happen.

@Treacletoots

Do you ever feel guilt?
What happens when your mum dies?
Do you have any functioning family relationship with siblings etc and do they respect your view?

The free life comes at a cost?

I do fantasise about the freedom though.

@SkittlesRainbow

Can you talk your options through with your psychotherapist? Or are you not seeing them any more? It sounds like you need a coping strategy in place, and to reduce contact as much as possible - I.e. from every 4 weeks to every 6 and for less time. If you have already done this and its still not helping then no contact may be your option.

I think a lot of people will relate to how you feel, and how this relationship is having nothing but a negative impact on your wellbeing. You must not feel guilty for putting yourself and your needs first.

What will your plans be for Christmas normally - would you spend it with her or do you have alternatives?

@SkittlesRainbow I am having a zoom with psychotherapist on Wednesday. He is of the 'learn coping strategies' school of thought. Reducing is possible but the more I pull away the more intense she gets. Sometimes when I go see her it is fine - no dramas. And then there are the days where she will endlessly ruminate and go on and I want to run.

It is only a few hours a month so maybe just being compassionate towards her and deep breaths... a while ago when visiting I would internally say ' This is really unhealthy behaviour and it is her stuff, she won't or can't change and I owe it to myself to be healthy and not get triggered' - this kept me sane for the visit. But now I get enraged. She did lots right but man she did so much wrong too. I have no photographs of me as a baby. None..... I missed medical attention. She played me off my poor dad. When I think of those things I feel right to be angry but wonder what the point is. Would radical acceptance be better?

I had a tough childhood with both parents. I think if your seeing her 1 weekend in 4 and your finding it difficult to cope mentally/physically there is more work for you to do in therapy.

In your shoes, I'd go extremely low contact and try to disengage as much as possible. Maybe keep it as a Xmas and birthday type relationship. Give minimal details about your life, so things can't be used against you, and try to keep any contact and chatter as light as possible. It means you'll have to learn to be extremely firm and set boundaries, especially if she's used to getting her own way.

Your mother sounds a lot like my MIL, who similarly gives me anxiety and physical stress in the run up to seeing her. I did try to challenge her about her behaviour. She cried and then made out she was having chest pains. Then told everyone I was trying to keep her from her grandkids. I've also tried to mend bridges, but that would involve compromise from her end, so it isn't going to happen. But low contact seems to work well.

@Cheesypea

I had a tough childhood with both parents. I think if your seeing her 1 weekend in 4 and your finding it difficult to cope mentally/physically there is more work for you to do in therapy.

I'm in agreement. I'm surprised at how intense this is. Maybe its Christmas. I spoke to my brother about it a week ago thinking I'd get knocked back - he was fully in agreement! He cannot deal with it either and he lives closer to her. He says he has to decide on the conversation and tactics before he goes and after he leaves he goes for a run to undo his head! I was jaw dropped as I thought it was just me. More tactics needed. My kids are now at the point where they are very meh about seeing her too. I already don't answer the phone or texts until I am ready. Blocked her number yesterday just for headspace. Thank you.

I don’t want to be a bitch, but at 83 years old you’re unlikely to change her, and going NC seems a little cruel, you say she’s not a bad person, but your relationship with her is toxic.

I know not a popular view on here, but I don’t think it’ll actually protect you from harm - from your past relationship, your sibling relationships, nor your feelings when she dies. So for your own sake, I think you should try and visit a little less (one week in five, for an hour?), but analyse visits afterward with your therapist if that is useful.

@Saz12

I don’t want to be a bitch, but at 83 years old you’re unlikely to change her, and going NC seems a little cruel, you say she’s not a bad person, but your relationship with her is toxic.

I know not a popular view on here, but I don’t think it’ll actually protect you from harm - from your past relationship, your sibling relationships, nor your feelings when she dies. So for your own sake, I think you should try and visit a little less (one week in five, for an hour?), but analyse visits afterward with your therapist if that is useful.

Thats my fear. At the end of the day the damage is done. From now on its reframing it, coping with it and limiting future damage to me. The relationship is toxic. I might need to really really work on staying calm, before, during & after he visits. Its now a big thing for me anxiety wise. I'd love to go NC but not sure it fixes much for me.

Dont challenge her, you will will not get her to take ownership of what she has done and it will hurt you more. It just opend up for further abuse.

Low contact and gray rock is a option. Nothing has to be black and white and there is no one size fits all answer. I toyed with NC but in the end it would cause me more guilty and lose and hurt. I see my mum but I dint stay at hers without my dh and try not to see her with my kids without dh. I tell him what to look out for because it is a abuser victim relationship basically however much I can protest I'm no longer a victim. She will stop if dh pulls her up. Not for me but I can walk out. I dont have to listen any more

The visits when she’s awful you should cut short.
The “I’ve not seen you in weeeeeeeeeks, you’re just too busy for me now” stuff you need to smile and say “Mum, I am busy, thanks for understanding” or similar.
Remember, if you visited every day she’d want you to visit twice a day.

Ive read alot of therapy books. I always go back to the drama of being a child by Alice Miller. It's only about 200 pages. I'd recommend it to anyone who is processing their childhood.

I went no contact with my parents about 10 years ago now. The first couple of years were difficult I felt a lot of guilt etc but now I know I have made the right decision. It was not one I took lightly at the time but I genuinely believed I would be happier/less stressed without them and I was right. The different is though my parents were only in their late 40s at the time (young parents), so I knew if I was going to change my mind a few year later then I could get back in touch with.
them. In all honesty though, I don't think I will ever get back in touch with them.

It sounds like if you challenge you will not get the response you need, causing you way more hurt and if the relationship is to be repaired it sounds like all of the work may end up coming from you.

I honestly think you would be best going no contact. But maybe start with cancelling the next visit and see how it makes you feel. If the relief/lack of stress by not going outweighs any guilt/sadness you have your answer.

Good luck whatever you decide

I've recently gone NC with my father. He's a difficult man - sulking, flying off the handle or just completely dismissive. I felt uneasy around him even as a young child.

My mum is the sweetest woman ever but she is still with him and is a bag of nerves when she goes anywhere with him. I've encouraged her to leave him but she hasn't/won't.

He started shouting and swearing at an innocent comment from myself - all infront of my children just prior to the NC. Then told my mother a complete lie to cover up - which put me at blame. This is what has upset me the most, that he is prepared to throw me under the bus to remove blame from him.

I haven't told him I am NC but did gently explain to my mum that she is still welcome in our lives and our home is always open to her. She does still visit us every week. However, I will not visit their home anymore.

I feel much calmer and happier with my decision and I'm glad I made it. Its also lovely to see my mum just on her own.

OP you might find some of this podcast interesting thisjungianlife.com/episode-48-estrangement/

Sorry - i posted too soon. I think you know what's best and I agree with the poster above. If you aren't sure, try small first. Give yourself a month off visiting her and review how you feel.

I wish you well in this though as I know how difficult this is.

DH finds her can manage every 6 weeks but if it strays into monthly territory he gets too stressed. Her comments get to him, he gets sucked in to the negativity, old habits. Whereas at 6 weeks he has enough distance and normality to just keep his perspective and it's clearer that she's not a normal person and it has nothing to do with him.

Oh, DH was happier no contact. Should have said that.

We are at the same place as you. We feel we have tried and exhausted every option and that NC is the only one left and the last key to having a happy life. But it comes with its own cost. Its extreme and hard to come back from, so in my opinion the last resort (without us having to sacrifice our own health and happiness), it also has implications within our family (also three siblings) and we wonder the long term impacts on our relationships, and of course there is the worry about what happens in the event of death or illness. That's what plays on our mind a lot.

On the forum a few weeks ago, someone said to me that I needed to accept that I would not have the relationship I want from these people and that no matter what I do, it won't achieve the outcome that everyone just gets on, is respected, and has healthy boundaries. I think I was striving for that all along. It's made me face a reality that no matter what I do, or what I sacrifice of myself, I can’t change or control the way they treat me. I feel like this realisation was a big step and my husband and I are now grieving a relationship that never existed - the loss of hope that things would ever improve. I hope that coming to terms with this reality will make it easier for me if / when we have to interact again as my expectations will be gone, the hope of making things better won't be there, and I will no longer be fussed at bad treatment because I have already moved on. Thats the hope. I want to be able to laugh it off, or at least just roll my eyes and move on with the rest of our life - which i have no complaints about!

Ps I know what you mean about getting more extreme the more you pull away. Its because they realise they are losing their hold / control over you. And in my view helps confirm its the right direction to go in.

I have taken breaks from family members before in the past when we are not getting on, sometimes a few weeks without speaking is enough to get some space. In healthy relationships you can come back and fix things after a break, and move on. I find it funny that in the toxic relationships, this break feels like a very loud ticking clock, and a constant low key anxiety about the need to see them again without leaving too much of a gap - rather than a need or want to actually repair things. That's the warning sign to me that the process is unhealthy and about meeting their needs, not your own.