To up sticks from inner London for the Highlands?

[hibbledibble]

I've lived here all my life, but am increasingly finding it unpleasant. Too many people, too much pollution, too much crime, too little outdoor space. Since lockdown it's just got worse, as crime has increased, and the amenities have been closed. House feels too small when we are cooped up in it, but I could never afford anything bigger here, despite working in a professional job. I'm already in a not ideal area. Schools are also a concern, especially secondary, as they are rough and full of gangs.

The Highlands seems idyllic in comparison, and I could get a huge house, for less than the cost of my modest London terrace. The children would love the outdoor space, and it would be great for them to have freedom they couldn't in London, due to the crime here.

My concerns are the cold (but surely just need to wrap up warm?!) And feeling isolated. My job is portable.

Aibu?

To reply to some posters talking about chips on shoulders and anti English feelings. I did not say I was anti English (my own mother is English as are many of my friends and family) I just said people from London being able to cherry pick the nicest properties makes me feel uncomfortable. They have the privilege of choice that we don't have, i couldn't buy a property in London, its a fact of life but I don't have to be 100% happy about it, it's the fault of an unregulated housing market not English people. However I think it's fair and sensible for people to look before they leap and at least think about the effects of what they're doing and anticipate reactions and research communities thoroughly, it might help make a move more successful. I dont think it does the Highlands any favours to over romanticise them.

I understand there are lots of other places in between. I just don't feel like London suburbs/commuter town is for me: if I'm going to move out might as well do it properly!

I've seen other parts of the UK, and nowhere is as breathtakingly beautiful as the Highlands. That's the big draw. People also seem really happy there, despite a subset on this thread, and the open racism of them.

I'm not ethnically English either (most aren't in London). Does that make me ok? Though I do have a London accent.

Definitely a lot to think about. I'm not sure if house viewings are allowed currently either.

Buying a house in Scotland is different to the UK. It might be better to rent first. Some villages have a lot of social housing but if youre looking at gp jobs maybe they offer short term accommodation. Not sure I understand your comment about not being ethnically English and that most arent in London and having a London accent.

OP I think the way in which you phrased your question has prompted a lot of extreme responses. Your interpretation of ‘highlands’ depends a lot of where you live.
I moved from a large English city to north east Scotland and I absolutely love it (I wouldn’t call it the highlands but others might). We are rural but not remote and I think this is more what you are considering than somewhere very isolated?
Inverness is lovely. As for weather concerns, consider the Moray Firth. Has it’s own microclimate and is well used to incomers as others have suggested because of the air bases. Nairn is nice and on the train line to Inverness. More small town than remote village with stunning beaches. I’d also recommend Aberdeenshire. Great quality of life.
Things to bear in mind, east to west can look close on a map but the Cairngorms mean it takes me as long to get to the west coast as it probably would from England!
For me, it took a while to adapt to having access to only one city ( I was used to a choice of many other large satellite towns bigger than many Scottish cities). But I hardly even go there now as we spend our weekend walking in the hills or on the coast. I feel my children are getting a great childhood, lovely village school and we go to the beach on the way to get a food shop.
Weigh up what you really make use of in London and if you are not hoovering up the culture every night and prefer walks outdoors, go for it. Then choose carefully where you live, think about transport connections and winter roads but even in north Scotland there are loads of options that mean you will be just off trunk roads but living very rurally. Even Inverness itself will feel rural compared to where you live now, the city boundaries up here are very small and you soon hit open space.
I won’t ever go back. Been the best thing I ever did

Op I don’t think anyone has been racist. They have been open and honest about their experiences as an English person in the highlands of Scotland, both good and bad. I went to the main station in Glasgow to get a train after an England/Scotland football match. The massive queue were all chanting ‘if you hate the fucking English, clap your hands’ and everyone clapped!! If they weren’t outwardly clapping people were wryly smiling. The police were laughing. It’s that sort of shit I just couldn’t be arsed with. Even ‘jokey English banter’ gets tedious. However, lots of people say they haven’t experienced this at all. I think if I moved back now, I wouldn’t get the abuse I did, because my social circle would be older and different. My kids would though, because everybody goes to the same local school and you can’t choose your classmates. I did live in Dumfries and it was gorgeous and people less anti English.

I live in a remote part of the Highlands, healthcare is a big one, although if you're thinking close to Inverness you will have raigmore. Both dh and I have to work remotely, which narrows down the job hunt, which might be something to consider for future job changes.

Personally I think it will be a disaster I can't believe the majority is YANBU . Just move somewhere lovely in Yorkshire instead, your children won't thank you for moving them to the middle of nowhere when they're teens.

Op, I don't think anyone has been racist , it's as Haggisfish says. If you find some of the (very) mild comments on this thread racist you may struggle . People in the highlands are , in my experience, the same as in any rural community. They don't like folk coming in from the ' big city' wherever that may be, flashing cash, and implying that they are somehow better than the country bumpkins that they live among. Obviously not everyone is like that but sadly it is very definately a thing.

Not the highlands but we live in a very rural areas of the uk. It was an area we had often holidayed in before we moved.
The cons of living rural.
Local food shops ok but a 70 miles round trip to go to a decent Sainsbury's / Morrison's etc. No Waitrose in county.
No big department stores / no major out of town shopping.
Very limited cinema , have to travel for a multiplex.
No real culture / mix of people with various cultures.
Limited places to eat.
Hard to get a dentist ( we had to wait about a year ) and even though we have one it's a 40 miles round trip.
Life is much , much slower which is obviously what you are after but everything has to be much more planned.

@shrodingersbiscuit what are on about when did Scotland get colonised by the English? If you are talking about the highland clearances it was not Scotland versus England war.
I thought Scotland and Scottish people played quite an active role colonising in the name of the British empire.
Unfortunately my knowledge of history is limited to higher history grade and going to see The Cheviot, the stag and the black black oil which seemed to say that it was our own Scottish lords who shafted us plebs.

Some people have implied that it's somehow morally wrong to decide to move somewhere like the Highlands because you want to live somewhere beautiful and rural though. As though that would somehow be 'using' the place. But we aren't talking second home owners here. We are talking about people who will work and live there, and contribute to the local economy.

I live in Cumbria. There is a good mix in my area of incomers and people whose families have lived here for generations. I've never encountered any bad feeling about it at all. 'City folk flashing their cash and looking down on the area' isn't a thing I've ever seen. We lived in a city before,but we are no wealthier or flashier than any of the proper locals. The only thing that distinguishes us from some (not all) people round here is our southern accent.

@hibbledibble I'm not sure if you just expected other people who have moved from London to answer your thread but I think if you'd left out the detail about affording a huge house I'm pretty sure you'd have had a better reception from the Scots on this thread. That was a bit tactless, usually people in your situation go to Scotsnet and ask more thoughtful questions rather than doing a poll, lots of mumsnetters living in Scotland then virtually compete to give the best suggestions and advice, myself included sometimes, check it out.

Hey @shrodingersbiscuit, it's good that you are adding your view. It's the exact reason I posted my experience as the OP is moving from England to Scotland so she should know that there is that sentiment abroad toward English people.

We have sometimes found it to be difficult to work out where we are appreciating Scottish culture and where we are appropriating. Like I say, we love living here so no harm is meant and for the record my husband has never worn a kilt.

I am Irish and so I know how it feels to come from a Nation that was conquered by 'the English' and treated appallingly. You had clearances, we had famine, we both had our wars against the English. However, my personal view is that ordinary English people weren't responsible for the travesties of the past and if they chose to adopt aspects of my culture I welcome that and I welcome them in. Obvs if they are insensitive to my culture or look down on it they should be booking their flight home.

It can be easy to label someone as 'English' - but then do you think of them differently when you find they had Scottish Welsh Irish or other nationality parents or grandparents?

Personally I like seeing English (or any nationality tbh) up here in kilts for wedding etc. Trying to fit in with the culture and Lee from Bradford or whoever, who's wearing it for Burns night or a wedding has bugger all to do with things long in the past.

Many hotels expect their staff to wear traditional kilts on special occasions and they are obviously not always going to be Scottish.

@shrodingersbiscuit my Husband's experience is that he has encountered what I would describe as a lot of anti English sentiment, particularly heightened at the time of the Indy ref. It is a thing.

However, he has a pretty thick skin, so shakes it off, and just like every other group of people on this earth, not all Scottish people are the same or think the same way. So while he has had some pointed comments, it has been made up for by the welcome he has had from others.

[quote Wbeezer]**@hibbledibble I'm not sure if you just expected other people who have moved from London to answer your thread but I think if you'd left out the detail about affording a huge house I'm pretty sure you'd have had a better reception from the Scots on this thread. That was a bit tactless, usually people in your situation go to Scotsnet and ask more thoughtful questions rather than doing a poll, lots of mumsnetters living in Scotland then virtually compete to give the best suggestions and advice, myself included sometimes, check it out.[/quote]
I have to agree with this. Also, you left out the huge detail of being a GP!

@hibbledibble your later posts have made it clearer that you have a more specific area in mind and that you'd contribute to the community. A lot of people who move from London don't contribute, but expect everyone to recognise them as superior beings (huge generalisation, obviously). From my reading of your first post, I assumed you were someone who could WFH and was fantasising about keeping hens on a croft whilst learning to weave your own tweed but having everything delivered from London. Your later posts have made it a bit clearer that's not the case!

Do be genuinely be wary about a couple of things though 1) the shops - if Debenhams goes then Inverness won't have a department store at all and the nearest John Lewis is in Aberdeen. There's no Waitrose! 2) transport, the shift from London transport to the transport even within Inverness still frustrates me every time I go to see my parents.

Don’t think Waitrose has ventured further north than Stirling?

@Ginfordinner

It's a bit odd that people are so anti the idea of driving children to places. Never mind the Highlands of Scotland, there are vast swathes of England where everyone does this. It's pretty normal for anyone who lives in a village or eve semi-rurally.

Yes. This is our normal. I guess it depends on if you drive, whether you have easy access to a car (DH and I have a car each) and whether you are used to regular public transport.

With respect, driving in rural Scotland is very different from driving in rural England, as many tourists find out the hard way. Driving single track roads is slow; reversing to passing places common, in summer there are confused foreigners who are not quite sure which side to pass, tourists ambling along at snails pace; holdups behind a bus.In winter it;s often treacherously slippery and you're commuting in pitch dark both ways watching out for deer , and boy racers. So taking the children to football takes longer and is more stressful than you might be used to.

They haven't, that was my point.

OP I live in the Highlands (am Scottish, so is DH). It's beautiful and spacious and the wildlife is fantastic and the opportunities for outdoor activities are great. But what people say about rural remoteness is true - poor telecoms (no mobile phone signal in a fair few places), very poor broadband, narrow, dangerous, ungritted roads that can be blocked by fallen trees in winter and clogged with tourists in the summer. Local shops (if any) with costly, limited stock.
Power-cuts; no mains gas or mains drainage (septic tanks). Cultural activities a long way away.

Communities can be divided between local people/crofters and rich incomers. There are few jobs, low wages, drugs, alcohol abuse, mental health problems. Lots of road accidents. A skewed demographic - many young people move away to find good jobs, so many villages have a high proportion of over 50s or older with multiple health needs.

No supermarket deliveries in many places. Courier deliveries slow and expensive. Very few skilled tradespeople. Schools can be a very long way away - weekly boarders/long bus journeys. As so many people have said, nothing much for teenagers to do. Their best schoolfriends may live 30 miles away; there may be few other people of their age/interests close to the place where they live.

I think you also have to ask - can you contact any rural Highland GPs? - why there are so many vacancies for medics in the Highlands. Many practices have just one full-time GP, helped by part-timers or ( more often) a series of locums. Medical professionals that I've met say that they wish they had more colleagues for support - someone to discuss cases with, or someone to share a particular area of interest/expertise. Some practices have video conferences to try to address this, but I think the work can often be often lonely, and the responsibilities as a sole GP are enormous. Out of hours arrangements vary from place to place, but where I live, the GP' does daytime Mon-Fri; nights and weekends are covered by locums or nurse practitioners, who won't necessarily be local. Home visits can involve driving in hazardous conditions. There is no quick help from paramedics - it takes the local ambulance an hour to get to many villages in its 'patch'. . The nearest hospital can be hours by road or air away. (As people have said, there is one big hospital - in Inverness - for the whole of the Highlands. ) Things like bloods can take a long time to get there to be tested, though there are recent improvements - the local paper had an article only recently about a 'blood-bike' - a high speed motorbike courier service to link GPs to central hospital labs.

NHS Highland has had a very troubled time in recent years, with accusations of bullying and some very, very unhappy doctors. ( www.tsh.scot.nhs.uk/Safe/Docs/Learning%20from%20External%20Inquiry%20Reports/Sturrock%20Report%20-%20Apr%2019.pdf ) Big attempts are being made to put all this right, but again, if you can talk to current Highland GPs about how well these are working, it would probably be very useful.

The Highlands can be fantastic, and I love living here, but it is not always easy. It depends, I suppose, on what you like. Some people positively thrive on challenges.