AIBU to worry about our increasing reliance on vaccines?

[Jolonglegs]

The number of viruses seem to be increasing - ebola, zika, covid-19 etc - and I'm becoming increasingly concerned that we 're becoming ever more reliant on vaccines's. I'm not a scientist, so not really sure what a vaccine is or what it is made of, but I like to keep my body is as natural a state as possible, so don't like putting ever more stuff into it.

I think we need to be reflecting on human behaviour that encroaches more and more on the animal environment, and what we can do to reduce it. Population growth, Insecticides, deforestation, meat eating should all be reduced.

Ah OP that was good for a laugh!

"I know nothing about it but I have this opinion"

There's always one..

And your alternative would be?? More and more people dying?

Why? To prove a point. I don't think a 'point' really needs to be proven if it is going to save people's lives.

I bet you also moan at hospitals for helping people.

"Oh, we're becoming too reliant on medical professionals to make us better...we should just all suffer and die"

I honestly despair at some people's thought processes..yours is one of them.

I agree with your second paragraph wholeheartedly.
The first not so much. I think you mean that if we keep vaccinating that we won’t be able to fight things off naturally? I’m not sure. My understanding is that vaccines trigger an immune response, which means your body can fight off infection. No idea if this is right or wrong btw!

Have a read...
www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/10/a-haunting-reminder-of-life-before-vaccines

Is the op of the strange name coming back?

Look at what happens when viruses meet any previously unexposed population, such as Native Americans, or measles in the Yanomami. The virus rips through them, killing large percentages of the population. Read some children's books from the early C20th - as I child I could not understand the fear around colds become pneumonia, measles, mumps, TB, smallpox etc in the children's books I was reading. As I got older I realised it was because they didn't have vaccinations and whilst the advent of antibiotics helped eventually with TB and bacterial (but not viral) pneumonia, the viruses behind measles etc were big killers until vaccines came along. Even when the infections didn't kill, they left people with lifelong disabilities - I know people who survived polio and German Measles in the womb, leaving them deaf, blind, unable to walk etc.

Vaccines are one of our only defences against viruses, and are also important for bacterial infections, particularly given the massive coming disaster of widespread antimicrobial resistance.

A vaccine is giving your body a tiny dose of a virus/bacterium, so that your body learns what it is and how to fight back, without becoming overwhelmed. This has 2 effects: 1. If you are exposed to the virus in the wild (which will be a much bigger dose, which would be hard to fight) then your body is primed to fight back immediately, 2. If enough people in the population are vaccinated then it will be hard for the virus to pass from person to person, and that will reduce (in best cases eliminate) the chance of people being exposed to the virus in the first place. If you'd prefer to take your chances with a full dose of a deadly virus in the wild, then good luck to you!

As you say, encroaching on wild habitats increases the chance of people being exposed to viruses that cross the species barrier, as Covid did, leading to SARS, MERS, Covid, Ebola etc. Whilst we should be working across the world on reducing human impact on the natural world, we should simultaneously be protecting people with vaccines, because there are (1) already so many circulating dangerous viruses and (2) pragmatically, will be more in the future, due to habitat encroachment, and the impact of climate change, as we will be exposed to more and more illnesses that are endemic to hotter areas.

P.S. I AM a scientist, and work on coordinating global responses to solve global challenges, including antimicrobial resistance, climate change, and Ebola.

@TicTacTwo one of my favourite quotes

More so when applied to human life ensuring that is!

Hello everyone.

We're just dropping in as we're getting a number of reports about anti-vax sentiment and misinformation. Mumsnet, being an open site, does mean that this kind of thing tends to be robustly challenged on the boards, and many users are here looking for reassurance after all.

We're always on alert to anyone here with a specific agenda to share a particular (often extreme) point of view. We'll usually ban such posters as their contributions to threads are rarely helpful. We also delete links to sites that are clearly peddling bad science/fake news.

We think, especially with the emergence of new vaccines, it’s understandable people will want to discuss what’s involved - but we’d always urge anyone with questions to speak to a medical professional too. You can also find further information about vaccines on the NHS website. www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/why-vaccination-is-safe-and-important/

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet can MNHQ not adopt a policy of posting a generalised message on vaxx threads stating along the lines of "posters may not be who they say they are and we have not verified the scientific credentials of anyone posting on MN therefore you should seek advice on vaccination from a qualified medical professional such as your Health Visitor, GP, or Practice Nurse. The NHS and WHO both support vaccination as one of the most positive factors in improving public health" - much in the same way there is a message posted on potential begging threads reminding posters not to send money.

FoxyTheFox

I totally agree with you in principle but this particular poster seems too thick to be a Russian bot.

Just a good old-fashioned hippy who's read a lot of half-baked nonsense on the internet and has no grasp of science or history.

Not generally a fan of banning or censoring things and I think these idiots should be allowed to fly freely to expose the idiocy of their views but I think there is a case for flagging when views are dangerously stupid.

I don't necessarily mean a ban, unless they're posting out and out lies, just a reminder that MN have not checked everything credentials of anyone posting and that the official NHS stance is that vaccines are safe and are recommended for those who are able to have them.

This is a parody yes?

FoxyTheFox

Seems sensible to me. The problem is with these people that the NHS will by association be part of the "deep state" or "big pharma" and therefore not deemed trustworthy.

Why trust scientists and official bodies when you can rely on the unbiased opinions of "alternative" YouTubers who are inadvertantly supported by alt.right organisations.

There's no legislating for extreme ignorance.

I agree - our consumption as a race is disgraceful. I need to start with myself, i know that. In fact, that will be my new years resolution x

Shocking that OP hasn’t been back to share more insights

I think we have a reliance on vaccines because every living thing wants to live, so a virus will evolve to do that. And humans want to too - hence the development of vaccines because our natural biology takes millions of years to evolve! As a result we don't have disabled adults because of polio in childhood, pock marked adults due to smallpox and a good longevity for people who suffer from lung diseases because they don't have tuberculosis to contend with too. They're the only vaccines I can comment on because I too am not a scientist. However, I am happy to put vaccines inside me and still look after the planet! And be careful with the world's resources. And live longer doing so! (I am pro-vaccines, thinking doctors and researchers know more science than an armchair one.)

@gobbynorthernbird

There needs to ba a vaccine for stupid.

If only ....

I think vaccines are awesome and am all jabbed up to the max but I do agree that there should be more of a rethink about why we need as many as we do. Most new viruses jump to humans from animals because of really horrible farming practices or similar behaviour (interestingly archaeologists thiink humans had fee diseases before we became farmers). If ethical farming became more of a norm the human race would be much healthier.

Covid has highlighted how gross many of our practices are. Majority of children at my child’s school weren’t even handwashing before eating pre-covid. Regular vom bugs and tum aches were the norm in school when they didn’t have to be.

Dump and run was it OP

I’m glad to see MNHQ are at least trying to inject some degree of responsibility for this stuff. The scaremongering on here was been absurd for some time.

So you had the flu vaccine in October this year but don’t know what a vaccine is and like to keep your body natural. I smell bullshit.

@BucksFizzForBreakfast

Hm, pretty sure cavemen were as natural as they come with no vaccines and wasn't their life expectancy 27?

Even cave men were ‘interfering’ with nature, performing brain surgery. A skill that they were successful with

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepanning

It's a shame that people have labelled me an antivaxer. I and my family have had all the vaccines available, and will have the Covid vaccine when it comes out. My point was that we seem to becoming over reliant on them, and that is causing me some concern, leading me to think that perhaps its an indication of the way we are mis-using the planet.

EUnamechange - As you say, encroaching on wild habitats increases the chance of people being exposed to viruses that cross the species barrier, as Covid did, leading to SARS, MERS, Covid, Ebola etc.
Thank you for that.
Skysblue - but I do agree that there should be more of a rethink about why we need as many as we do. Most new viruses jump to humans from animals because of really horrible farming practices or similar behaviour (interestingly archaeologists think humans had fewer diseases before we became farmers). If ethical farming became more of a norm the human race would be much healthier.
Thank you, the point I'm trying to make.