He's planning to sell the house behind her back

[Returnofthemaccys]

Hi, I'd welcome any advice about what to do and whether this is legal.

DH's brother is married and lives in Scotland. He bought a house with a deposit that he saved up while married. Only his name is on the deeds even though they were married when he bought it about a year ago. Their marriage is in trouble and wife has moved in with her parents 8 months ago but continues to pay the mortgage as he has lost his job and she feels sorry for him. The marriage breakdown is largely due to his behaviour (which also caused him to lose the job). Wife moved back in recently but is now saying it's over and she wants a divorce.

I've found out from DH tonight that BIL is planning to sell the house behind her back. He's going to sell it to a friend who wants to flip it as an investment property so it won't be on the market, no viewings etc. Friend will then rent it to him until after the divorce so that SIL can't get half of the deposit equity. SIL pays the mortgage by putting money in his account and he pays so I think she'll never know.

My two questions are 1) Can he do this in Scotland and get away with it, both in terms of her not knowing it's being sold out from under her and in terms of her not being entitled to the money from it in the divorce if she files for divorce after the sale? and 2) Should I tell her? I don't know her very well at all but could contact her, but it's really none of my business. My loyalty is very technically with DH's brother though actually I'm disgusted by many aspects of his behaviour. But MIL is fully on board and knows and is championing this so me getting involved would massively rock the boat.

[LakieLady]

@Malteserlover50, you are a trouper! I was wondering whether to suggest similar, but being in Scotland makes it so much more plausible.

I'm afraid I think your MIL is despicable, OP, and if I was married to someone who was prepared to go along with this, I'd be seriously considering whether I wanted to stay married to them.

They'd certainly be getting a lecture on ethics, and I'd be making sure that every asset of the marriage was protected to stop it ever happening to me.

[florascotia2]

OP Apologies if someone has sent this link before:
www.oraclelaw.com/family-law/matrimonial-property

It depends on whether BIL purchased the house before or during the marriage, and/or (if before the marriage) what his intentions were.

[ALLIS0N]

@VinylDetective

There are so many holes in this plan that even I can spot and I’m not a Solicitor

There are quite a few “holes” you’ve made up. Cash buyers frequently don’t bother with surveys. There’s no requirement to be a registered landlord nor is there any need for a tenancy agreement if neither party desires one.

OP, I honestly can’t believe there are people telling you not to tell her. I wonder if they’d say the same about someone having an affair? I bet they wouldn’t and, to my mind, this is far worse.

I’d tell her and ask her not to divulge where the information had cone from. Don’t do it in a way that leaves evidence - pick up the phone and speak to her.

I’ve not made them up.

It’s illegal to sell a house without a Home Report. The only exceptions are

-houses that have been on the market continuously since before 1 December 2008
new housing sold off-plan or to the first occupier
newly converted property not previously used in its converted state
right-to-buy homes
dual-use homes used for residential and non-residential purposes
seasonal holiday homes as defined in planning law (as distinct from second or holiday homes that could be used all year if the owner so chose).

And yes there is a requirement to be a registered landlord.

And yes in most cases the landlord must provide a written tenancy agreement. They must always do so if you're an assured, short assured, or private residential tenant of a private landlord.

If you think I’m wrong then please link to the relevant legislation / guidelines, rather than just rather rudely accusing me of making it up.

[RhymesWithOrange]

Tell her. Could you live with yourself if you don't and she gets royally screwed?

Or just send me her email address and I'll do it

[VinylDetective]

It’s not illegal in England to sell a house without a home report. How do I know? Because I bought a house outright without a survey.

I’ve also been a landlord and wasn’t registered. Had I chosen to rent that property to a friend without a tenancy agreement, there’s nothing to stop me. It would be stupid on both parts but not illegal.

It may be that things are different in Scotland.

Anyway, none of that is of any relevance to OP or her awful dilemma.

[keeprocking]

I don't know about Scotland but when we wanted to change our mortgage provider our daughter, 18, had to sign something as she lived in the house, even though her name wasn'ton anything.

[florascotia2]

Vinyl As Allison says, apart from a few exceptions it IS illegal to sell a house without a home report in Scotland.

For a useful summary about rights to matrimonial home, by Scottish solicitors, see here:
www.lindsays.co.uk/news-and-insights/insights/can-you-be-forced-to-sell-your-home-as-a-result-of-separation-or-divorce

[ConquestEmpireHungerPlague]

@Returnofthemaccys Have regard for the fact that the info in the link posted relates to the family home, whereas, if I understand your OP correctly, what is at issue is a second property. I think you need more detailed legal information, though Shelter may still be a good place to find it.

I would tell her without hesitation and I would be unimpressed in your shoes if my DH thought I shouldn't. If he thinks your MIL is wrong to back BIL he should be standing up and being counted instead of giving this monstrous plan his tacit approval.

[Twillow]

If you have her address you could just post that link anonymously - raise the flag. Then it would be up to her to investigate legal options to protect the house if she is worried.

[florascotia2]

Conquest you are right that rules for second homes are not the same, but I read the OP's post as if a mantrimonial home were the issue. Perhaps I'm wrong....

But whatever the situation, the OP's SIL needs legal advice.

[ConquestEmpireHungerPlague]

Oh, maybe I misread, in which case ignore me. The important bit is to tell her though.

[ALLIS0N]

@VinylDetective

It’s not illegal in England to sell a house without a home report. How do I know? Because I bought a house outright without a survey.

I’ve also been a landlord and wasn’t registered. Had I chosen to rent that property to a friend without a tenancy agreement, there’s nothing to stop me. It would be stupid on both parts but not illegal.

It may be that things are different in Scotland.

Anyway, none of that is of any relevance to OP or her awful dilemma.

Your experiences in England, France or Australia are irrelevant to this thread, which is about woman who lives in Scotland and is subject to Scots law.

The SILs rights are EXACTLY what the Op is posting about, she asks in her first post - can he do this? And Should I tell her?


“It may be that things [the law and legal rights] are different in Scotland [than England ] “

is a remarkably stupid thing to post, especially when you have just told someone else that they are “making up” Scots Law. A quick Google might stop you making such a fool of yourself.

[Dontbeme]

But MIL is fully on board and knows and is championing this so me getting involved would massively rock the boat

You are getting a ring side seat for the treatment you will get if your marriage ever hits a bad patch OP. Your husband's attitude of staying out of it but making disapproving noises about his DB and DM would really concern me too, will he really be the kind of character to stand by when someone is being defrauded just so he can maintain an easy relationship with two people willing to go to these lengths? I have a brother like your bil, he is capable of anything and I keep very low contact, allow him to know only the most surface details of my life and I learned the hard way to trust him only as far as I could throw him. Someone who will act this way towards one person has loyalty to nobody. Please find a way to alert SIL to what is planned.

[CakeRequired]

OP, I honestly can’t believe there are people telling you not to tell her. I wonder if they’d say the same about someone having an affair? I bet they wouldn’t and, to my mind, this is far worse.

Ha! You haven't been here long clearly. Most people on here wouldn't tell someone if they knew their partner was having an affair. They'd much prefer to stay out of it and have something to gossip about.

I suspect a lot of them are having affairs themselves and don't want outed. But yes the moral compass of most people on here is ever so slightly broken, or just smashed to pieces.

[chocorabbit]

OP, follow the most round-about idea from previous posters and tell your SIL to simply tell her H that she wants to register her name at the land registry because she wants to make sure he doesn't defraud her one day. They ARE divorcing so she probably wants to secure her rights?

Ask for her number because you want to send Christmas cards, presentss, wishes etc. Tell her what you know and follow the above advice about registering her interest in the house. Of course nobody can stop her from telling him it was you who told her.

She might not read mumsnet and know about married people jointly owing their assets.

[chocorabbit]

Oh, if her H rubbishes her claim she could also say that she has spoken to a solicitor who told her about marrital assets being jointly owned. After all she wants the money which she spent on this marriage back, right?

[nanbread]

If she's on social media, I'd set up a new account under a fake name and message her the details

[GabriellaMontez]

I'm a mind your own business person to a point.

But when someone is actively planning to steal from their wife and the whole family is on point it... well I would have no part in that. I'd openly tell her what I knew.

Just like if I heard the guy next door beating his wife I would ring the police without hesitation.

[ConquestEmpireHungerPlague]

Send her a link to this thread.

[2bazookas]

Tell her right away so she can get legal advice and protect herself.

[sundowners]

I would 100% create a fake email and in a few lines tell her.

[Calmandmeasured1]

From scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/families_and_households/relationship_breakdown/rights_if_you_or_your_partner_own_your_home/occupancy_rights_if_you_or_your_partner_own_your_home

My name is not on the title deeds
If your name is not on the title deeds, your rights to live there will depend on the legal status of your relationship.

How does the legal status of our relationship affect occupancy rights?
My partner and I are married or in a civil partnership
Even if your name is not on the title deeds, you automatically acquire the right to live in the family home when you get married or register a civil partnership. If your name is not on the title deeds, you will be a 'non-entitled spouse' or 'non-entitled partner'. Your right to occupy the home will last either until:

you divorce or dissolve your civil partnership, or
you leave the family home and do not return for two years or more. You will only lose your rights in this way if, during the two years, you did not live with your partner/spouse or live in the family home. If you left the family home before 4 May 2006 then your right to return will last until you get divorced or 'renounce' (give up) your right to live there.
This is a complex area of law and you should consider consulting a solicitor for more detailed advice.

[HannaYeah]

I haven’t read all the responses but have read the OPs posts.

I was privy recently to a similar family that situation which has caused a painful mess. SIL siding with her DH’s BIL against her DH’s sister. What I noticed is that her actions did not help the BIL at all, but did cause a huge rift and a great deal of pain in the family. Their kids are all hurt, it’s widened the wedge between the parents and no one is talking to anyone, and that’s the only real outcome.

Maybe it’s a completely different situation because this SIL is just not a good person. I know this because she tried to drag my family into some of her own shenanigans against her DH.

However, I understand the inclination to get involved. If I did decide to say something I would be very honest and direct about it with DH, BIL and MIL “This is wrong and I’ll not abide it. I’m telling her. Would you want me doing this to you, to your son? It’s simply not right and I won’t sit by while it happens.”

[user1487194234]

You only need a Home report in Scotland if the property is marketed
As this is a private sale no HR is required
And even if it was that would not help the poor wife
If the seller turns up at a solicitor's office with his titles and says he is not married then I can't see anything stopping the sale going ahead
The husband would have to sign a declaration that the property is not a matrimonial home
The best thing the wife could do is to take out an interdict against the sale
Breach of interdict is a very serious matter
But the wife would have to be alerted as to the situation

[SciFiScream]

Small fry by comparison but I found out that a friend of mine who had broken up with her boyfriend still had all his online logins and was using them to create lots of mischief.

I sent him an anonymous letter telling him and I believe he changed all his passwords to protect his online identity.

This friend of mine is not someone you want to get on the wrong side of!

You have to do SOMETHING and there have been lots of suggestions that are quite safe. Please do something.