He's planning to sell the house behind her back

[Returnofthemaccys]

Hi, I'd welcome any advice about what to do and whether this is legal.

DH's brother is married and lives in Scotland. He bought a house with a deposit that he saved up while married. Only his name is on the deeds even though they were married when he bought it about a year ago. Their marriage is in trouble and wife has moved in with her parents 8 months ago but continues to pay the mortgage as he has lost his job and she feels sorry for him. The marriage breakdown is largely due to his behaviour (which also caused him to lose the job). Wife moved back in recently but is now saying it's over and she wants a divorce.

I've found out from DH tonight that BIL is planning to sell the house behind her back. He's going to sell it to a friend who wants to flip it as an investment property so it won't be on the market, no viewings etc. Friend will then rent it to him until after the divorce so that SIL can't get half of the deposit equity. SIL pays the mortgage by putting money in his account and he pays so I think she'll never know.

My two questions are 1) Can he do this in Scotland and get away with it, both in terms of her not knowing it's being sold out from under her and in terms of her not being entitled to the money from it in the divorce if she files for divorce after the sale? and 2) Should I tell her? I don't know her very well at all but could contact her, but it's really none of my business. My loyalty is very technically with DH's brother though actually I'm disgusted by many aspects of his behaviour. But MIL is fully on board and knows and is championing this so me getting involved would massively rock the boat.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

*There’s a saying I heard recently that really resonated with me “what we allow, we encourage”.

And to this I would add the words of Elie Wiesel "Neutrality only ever benefits te oppressor".

[bluebluezoo]

I’d be inclined to get a male friend (sorry, I know it’s sexist but a man is more likely to be involved in the building trade, so more believable) to phone her and say he’s heard the house is for sale and can he arrange a viewing.

Or is it possible to engage a solicitor to look at her interests and inform her that she will need to waive whatever for the house to be sold. Client privilege would mean you identity would be protected?

[AtLeastPretendToCare]

Op before you do anything else get a copy of the property’s register from the Scottish Land Registry. Instantly available online for £3.60 and it is public info so BIL won’t know you’ve looked. This may show whether she has any interest already shown.

scotlis.ros.gov.uk/search

[ChonkyLamp]

Definitely you should tell her. It's the only moral thing to do.

And also you should make sure you know exactly what assets are owned by you and/or your husband, and keep proof of that. Because the family will want to do the same to you if they ever turn against you, and they may turn against you for informing your SIL that they plan to swindle her.

[LakieLady]

@titsbumfannythelot

I don't think you can place a charge on the land registry the way you can in England, not without bil consent at least.

I would tell her so she can get ahead of the situation and seek legal advice. BIL sounds like a snake.

You can put something called, iirc, a Matrimonial Rights Notice, on the register entry.

This stops the holder of the title selling or remortgaging the property without your consent.

My ex had one on my house until the divorce settlement was finalised.

[MimiDaisy11]

I hope she has the backbone to get a solicitor and pursue him. I'm in Scotland and while I don't know about laws I do know of two women who were ripped off because their husbands hid assets and did some dodgy dealings beforehand to move assets from them to a friend or family member. In those cases, the women were really meek. So while there likely were laws to help them they did themselves no favours.

It's obviously difficult to get involved but I would be tempted to alert her in some way even if just anonymously or contacting her solicitor.

[MaggieFS]

I think it's encouraging so many pp are saying this would be illegal in Scotland. Perhaps just pointing that out would be enough to stop them? MIL sounds like the type who would be mortified if her beloved son got a criminal record so we couldn't have that now could we?

[Mycatismadeofstringcheese]

The person you have to live with is you.

Are you the sort of person who handwrings and says “how dreadful” but does nothing, or are you the person who stands up for what is right even if if has a personal cost to you?

Personally I would phone her and say, “Stop whatever you are doing right now, call a solicitor and make sure you have an interest registered in your house. Do it today.”

[YankeeDad]

I am feeling pretty frustrated to see so many people slagging off on the OP and on her DH. This is truly a difficult dilemma!

In order to do “the right thing”, she and her DH would have to face a major rift with the rest of DH’s family, in order to help a relative stranger. Failure to do that for his SIL who is not that close would not necessarily imply he’d fail to stand by his own wife.

In my view, the extent of the moral imperative to say something depends largely on the circumstances. If it’s a 10-year marriage with three small children who might be left homeless, then I think there would be a very strong moral case to say something and face the consequences. If, on the other hand, it’s a 2-year marriage of which 8 months were spent living apart, with no children, and if the SIL did not contribute to the deposit, and if for all we know her behaviour with BIL could have been lovely or it could have been horrid, then yes, she is being screwed out of some money, but it’s unlikely to be life-changing for her. Whereas, a major rift with her inlaws would be life changing for the OP.

@Returnofthemaccys: here is one idea: if it could be shown that preserving the secrecy would constitute criminal complicity in fraud by you and your DH, then it would be easier to justify doing what you feel to be the right thing. So if you can afford to hire a solicitor for 1-2 hours of advice, you would (I believe) acquire attorney-client privilege, and you could then describe the situation and ask whether saying nothing, while you have this knowledge, would expose you legally. Your hope, in a way, would be for the answer to be “yes”, because then it might become easier to persuade your DH to join you in helping the SIL, rift or no rift. Even if the answer is “no”, the solicitor might have some ideas how to intervene with plausible deniability.

From reading the link in an earlier post, it would appear as though the BILs planned actions clearly would constitute fraud, but the problem is that with the way he planning to execute, he seems likely to get away with it.

Finally, just for all those who would judge the OP - virtually every one of us is guilty of failing to do all that we could do in order to help others. Anyone who eats meat sometimes (which causes immeasurably more environmental damage than plant based food), or has an empty spare bedroom while some people are homeless, or travels by air for a holiday sometimes even though it causes carbon pollution, or who buys products whose components were made in places with imperfect labour standards, or who decides not to call an acquaintance or elderly relative who is lonely today because it would be tiresome, or who accumulates any savings while some people are in great material need, is choosing to put some needs of their own ahead of some needs of others. That is what the DP (and the OP) would be doing by maintaining silence on this issue in order to try to avoid having a family rift over it right now.

Putting some of our own needs first, some of the time, does not make all of us completely rotten, immoral, despicable assholes and cunts. Sometimes a situation carries a very clear moral imperative about which most people would agree. The diversity of responses and advice in this thread suggests that this is not one of those scenarios

[Cailleachian]

You might want to show your BIL this recent case where a husband forged his wife;s signature to sell the marital home behind her back. He got 14 months.

www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/perth-kinross/1681219/jail-for-dundee-man-who-sold-family-home-behind-wifes-back-to-pay-back-haggis-tycoon/

[CaptainVanesHair]

Find a way to tell her.

I also thought that it’s very very frowned upon when a spouse tries to hide money/take it out of the pot? When DH and I were contemplating separating, MIL had him pay her £12000 under the guise of it having been a loan (it wasn’t, it was a gift and I actually happened to have that in writing). I showed all this to my solicitor and said they’re trying to hide our savings. Sol said they’d shout themselves in the foot by doing so.

Of course, we didn’t separate in the end - but this has become a major elephant in the room. MIL now has £12k of our savings, and because no one wants to admit it was done to try to defraud me, won’t give it back. It just never gets mentioned. DH didn’t even realise what had happened until I explained to him what had happened with the solicitor and buries his head in the sand.

That’s all to say, BIL’s plan is likely to come and bite his ass quite quickly anyway.

[Nottherealslimshady]

Tell her, without a doubt, if you keep it from her then you're just as bad as them.

Just send her a message, "Hey SIL, hope you're doing OK, I dont want to get involved but MIL and BIL have said that he's planning to sell the house to his friend without telling you and continue to rent it, presumably with your money, until the divorce is complete so you dont get any money back out of it. Please don't tell them I told you but you needed to know." I wouldn't even tell your husband you're doing it so he isn't lying to his family.

Its absolutely vile, I know you MILs type well, they're dangerous and malicious, all niceties are fake, be prepared, she'll throw you under the bus with a seconds notice to protect her image.

[VinylDetective]

There are so many holes in this plan that even I can spot and I’m not a Solicitor

There are quite a few “holes” you’ve made up. Cash buyers frequently don’t bother with surveys. There’s no requirement to be a registered landlord nor is there any need for a tenancy agreement if neither party desires one.

OP, I honestly can’t believe there are people telling you not to tell her. I wonder if they’d say the same about someone having an affair? I bet they wouldn’t and, to my mind, this is far worse.

I’d tell her and ask her not to divulge where the information had cone from. Don’t do it in a way that leaves evidence - pick up the phone and speak to her.

[CrimsonCattery]

You have to tell her and I would personally be open with DH that I had done so. Up to him if he tells MIL and BIL. Tells DH that you won't be messed with and you can also frame it as protecting BIL from future legal trouble due to his own short sightedness and greed.

[Nottherealslimshady]

@CaptainVanesHair have you asked for it back? Fuck me I couldn't help myself, over Christmas dinner "Hey MIL, do you think we could have our 12 grand back now since we're not separating?"

[TheCrowsHaveEyes]

If DBIL is motivated by self-interest then you could appeal to that ie tell him the friend who buys the house might make him homeless; tell him the possible impact of not declaring the income could mean he has a large tax bill that negates the benefit (because as soon as he does declare the income officially, his DW and DC can find out about it).
Then, think about who could know about their split from DSIL's side and feasibly contact your DSIL to offer advice eg a lawyer; someone from CAB; a friend or relative. Then contact them or get someone you know to pretend to be from one of those places and offer advice

[Skysblue]

Tell her. You owe more loyalty to a wife being screwed over than to your horrible BIL.

She has occupancy rights but it is complicated.

scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/families_and_households/living_together/your_rights_if_you_or_your_partner_own_your_home

[MsTSwift]

Who the hell are the 8% who would cover it up?! Nice moral compasses there🙄.

Omg that £12k story! Not quite sure I could stay in that marriage though!

[Milliepossum]

I think the issue is that their plan is to get the money out, possibly give it to the MIL, and since there’s no active divorce action at the moment, then when this eventually happens there will be no assets of the marriage to list when divorce proceedings eventually commence. If the money is hidden years before a divorce starts it’s too late. The SIL needs to get the information now so she can protect her interest and not be deceived by her spouse in thinking it’s worth going through the time consuming stages of trial separation and counselling and whatever else that will buy him time at her expense.

[Poppyolive90]

Send an email from a throwaway hotmail. Can include the link from one of the first few posters and a few brief sentences but nothing that the family could pin on you.

[SnowmanDrinkingSnowballs]

Even if he sells the house the money he receives would go onto the pot of money to be shared in the divorce. Since she knows there is an asset she would know to make sure the money from its sale was included in the pot to be split. Am I missing something, ai don’t see a problem.

[Poppyolive90]

CaptainVanesHair I’d make my husband go and get it and would probably cut off the MIL to be honest

[Notrightbutok]

My ex H bought a house whilst we were married but my name wasn't on it as I'd had a home repossessed previously. When it came to selling it after we split he had to obtain my signature because of the marital interest thingy. There was no equity in the house.

I later had experience of a family member trying to sell the marital home and move abroad whilst the spouse was under psychiatric care. Someone alerted the land registry of this and it put the brakes on their scheming.

[YoniAndGuy]

I would do the throwaway email and couch it so she will think it's coming from someone who is linked to the friend. Some line such as 'Please do not tell anyone you know this, if it were to get back to 'Friend' that this became public, I would be in a very difficult position. Please please simply register your link to the house immediately then there is no way that Friend can buy the house from your H'

Hopefully she will then do that.

If she does blow up to her H, then her description of the anonymous email will be totally focused on Friend. Friend then might deny he's told a soul, but your BIL won't believe him! - it would be far more believable that Friend has blabbed to someone than tracing it back to you. And if he suggests that, you deny it hotly.

[LakieLady]

@StatisticallyChallenged

I suspect he intends to spend the money pre divorce. Whilst there may be remedies available in terms of unwinding the transaction (not sure) this would be a potentially long slow process going through court. It would be better for her if it simply didn't happen.

I was thinking exactly that, largely because my ex tried to do similar by "hiding" a big chunk of his savings (the pillock left the bank receipt out on the desk we both used lol).

He'll sell the house, "lose" the money and then come after his wife for half of whatever she has.

Sometimes I fucking hate men, but then I remind myself that women often behave as badly.