AIBU to think part timers should get a better deal

[Frazzledme]

I've worked part time when my kids were small but it was so s* I've gone full time now. As a job the pay tends to be crap, there are hardly any jobs to pick from and I've worked in a few teams where they could never get over that I was into my job and wanted to do well. Where I work they're quite big on inclusion and diversity but if I ever mention anything about making things better for part timers and having more flexibility it's like tumbleweeds going past. I'm ok with my hours now, but some people might want to change if they have kids etc. I'd like to use my experience to improve things for others. Is there something I'm not getting why people are so funny about it?

Also I know some people see it as a choice thing, but it's not really. If it costs more to work than not work with childcare then part time hours often make sense. No tax to pay so hourly pay goes up.

Thinking of doing an article for our group magazine to highlight how things could be better. Is this a good idea? What sort of things should I include?

Or should I just think "I'm alright jack" now I've got my cosy full time job again and people seem to like and respect me.

I work part time. So do a few colleagues however, I think the flexibility to do this comes as one of our senior directors is a working mum of four kids so she really does champion it.

Re: the article. Thanks for the points and tips - back story is someone has asked the group of us to write them whether we're any good at writing or not. Its a slightly long story and I'm not bad at writing but just not sure about this as a topic or something safer!

I am a part time teacher but mark, plan and answer emails (if important) on my day "off". It's worth it to get the hours of work down from 60 to 40. My school are decent to part time staff though - we can apply for promotions and pay progression, be department heads etc. As a result, the school has fewer recruitment difficulties than most and PT staff are very loyal (as we can't leave!). When policies have placed more burden on part timers management have responded helpfully (e.g. we are now paid for parents' evenings on days we don't work and this year we can join meetings remotely - a Covid measure, but very helpful to part-timers). Tomorrow I will do a parents' evening online instead of having to hang around at work for 7 hours unpaid (that's not a typo - I finish at noon).

The main issue is that the key decision makers are all FT so they don't understand the issue. So I think your article is valuable as you have experience of FT and PT. You could be opening a whole can of worms though...

What a long piece of waffle. I should have just said you need someone in senior management to champion this.

I spent a long time working in quite a heavy duty office job on a part time basis, mostly three days a week. I always felt that my employers got a really good deal out of me, because the nature of my work was such that I often took some work home because it was easier to do that than to get someone else to cover it, and I had to be available for the occasional emergency that, again, couldn't be delegated. I also had to be available on the phone. So all of that meant that they were paying me in effect for three days when I was doing closer to four or more. My employers never really recognised what I was putting in and were fairly shitty, but really ultimately it was their loss; when I was ready to go back full time, I left with someone else and we set up our own team elsewhere, followed by clients who liked us and didn't want to stick with the old company.

@OldBalls I suppose I'm moaning because all the 'benefits' ie more time with family are benefits outside of work. If you're asking me to be grateful for a terrible time in work because of extra days off I'd say that's unreasonable. Some people can switch off but being in a bad time can colour your days off. Not to mention that I used to spend most of my days off applying for other jobs so hardly relaxing. It's not unreasonable to expect decent treatment in work.

I dont share you experience. I work in accountancy and there's quite a lot of part time roles. However it's generally easier to go part time when you are already in a job. The people I see struggling to find a part time role are the people who've taken several years out of work. A lot of the part timers I know have dropped their hours after having a baby, in their existing role.

@Phineyj thanks that was useful to hear. Senior management is a good idea. Perhaps I should approach one of the managers who does advertise roles as full time and part time, they're going against the grain so can ask how and why.

@durdur

Omg. I have a thread about asking my employer to reduce my hours by 1 each day so not alot. And the negativity in that post is pretty grim. Basically the consensus was that I'm being a cheeky fucker for asking so soon into a job / childcare my problem not my employers / wfh- whilst you have kids- no way! Most people just said they would point blank refuse my request. Things are really crap for PT staff. If you're low entry it's near impossible to progress. If we don't change our thinking we're never going to get anywhere!

Because you literally just started this job on a FT basis. Also because you were expecting to WFH and do childcare at the same time.

I also know quite senior people who work 4 days a week, however its unusual to find a senior role on less than 4 days a week because usually those are highly specialised roles with a lot of expertise required, and they need a full time person, and job shares are too difficult because its complex work to hand back and forth.

YANBU, my friend has five kids ( blended family) and has had to go back full time as it was made clear that despite her working through lunch and taking her laptop home at night she would not get another promotion if she stayed part time. They didn’t care that she was desperately taking on as much as she could to squash a full time role into part time hours, as long as her assignment said part time then the actual amount of work she did didn’t matter.

The problem with reducing by an hour each day is either someone has to cover your work for that hour on top of their own or they have to hire a person to work 1 hour a day 5 days a week.

Another issue is definitely people who want to go part time with the times that suit them leaving really crappy combinations of days and hours that amount to 16 hour or less awkward jobs that are a nightmare to fill because no one wants them.

Sadly and annoyingly, you may find that many staff think that part-timers already have a better deal.

The "We've already made concessions to allow you to work part time, you should just be grateful for that" mentality from managers/bosses and other staff.

I always wonder why there can't be businesses that are entirely part time, all staff part time and that's the default.

You're not wrong. I don't think it's a mistake though.

I will stay at my current job because it's part time, so my career stalls here at this level. Men at my level will progress.

My sector goes on and on and ON about inclusion but mysteriously cannot countenance part time hours, unless you start full time. It's weird to me because they also as a group go on and on about the skills shortage (I'm in tech) and about the mystery of the mid 30s exodus of women. For a field full of problem solvers, it's very LOUD to me that nobody can see that one.

I get 10 recruiters a week offering me roles but none of them will consider part time, so it's all just for show.

I suppose I'm moaning because all the 'benefits' ie more time with family are benefits outside of work...Not to mention that I used to spend most of my days off applying for other jobs so hardly relaxing.

This is a bizarre statement. What exactly is your motivation for championing the plight of part-time workers?
It is nothing to do with your employers how you choose to spend your days off. You really can't hold them responsible for that. What other benefits of being employed part time are you expecting? Businesses don't need to factor in your desires or expectations of a job when they have a role available. They will select the person who can meet the company's needs, not someone who only wants part time but wants all the benefits of a full time worker but also not pay any tax. It's unrealistic I'm afraid.

@Cocomarine

My large company is full of well paid people at middle levels (some at very senior, but not many) in interesting jobs, with career profession - who are part time.

What do they all have in common?

They took the time to get to that level before going part time.

You seem very certain that you’re making a meaningful point, but I’m uncertain what it is.

So everyone has to “take the time” to get to a senior level before daring to ask for a part-time arrangement? How long? 5 year? 10? Is working part time only for those who have a decade or two to devote entirely to their jobs? Is working part time a luxury that only a rare few, who prove themselves, should benefit from?

Hate this attitude.

@jojomolo

You're not wrong. I don't think it's a mistake though.

I will stay at my current job because it's part time, so my career stalls here at this level. Men at my level will progress.

My sector goes on and on and ON about inclusion but mysteriously cannot countenance part time hours, unless you start full time. It's weird to me because they also as a group go on and on about the skills shortage (I'm in tech) and about the mystery of the mid 30s exodus of women. For a field full of problem solvers, it's very LOUD to me that nobody can see that one.

I get 10 recruiters a week offering me roles but none of them will consider part time, so it's all just for show.

So frustrating!

“SnuggyBuggy

The problem with reducing by an hour each day is either someone has to cover your work for that hour on top of their own or they have to hire a person to work 1 hour a day 5 days a week.”

It really doesn’t work that way in the real world. Unless you are literally working on a production line in a factory, there is no need to hire another employee to fill in that missing hour 🙄

Sorry to jump on the thread and sort of hijack it, I don't have any experience of being pt but I'm on May leave and hoping to return to my middle management role in the nhs part time. For many of the reasons you all have stated: childcare costs/hours/desire to see my tiny baby more than just dinner time after a long battle to have her.

I am terrified my request for part time will be rejected (I'll literally take anything: 5 days over 4, 4 days, 3 days job share. I'll happily continue to do full time equivalent of on call so it doesn't impinge on anyone else) but no one in my role has ever been part time, all my colleagues are either younger than me/no desire for kids or their kids are grown. NHS is meant to be family friendly but in reality it isn't (in my management world anyway). And I can kiss any future promotions goodbye if I do go part time, and will no doubt be the height of gossip and disdain by my ft colleagues.

@Dreambigger I'm interested if you don't mind sharing, did you apply for pt role or did you request a change of hours, if so, how did you structure your argument!

X

I am a CEO who employs a mix of full-time and part-time staff.

One of my direct reports is now part time - she will be working four days a week but for the first three months came back on three days a week. We have slightly enhanced the role of her direct reports to give the team the resource and resilience that it needs.

I’ve just recruited into another role, this time a more traditional admin role and we advertised the post making it clear there was some flexibility around the hours. We advertised for 30 hours and made it clear we would be able to go up or down a bit depending on the applicant.

Some of our specialist roles are part-time and others choose to work compressed hours. I also have a couple of roles that are full time but with additional holiday entitlement that has to be taken during the school summer holidays.

I think the reason a lot of employers are nervous is because they haven’t seen the different ways in which it can work or taken the time to really think about it. Also, you do need to honestly engage with the staff members involved to understand what they are trying to achieve and be clear about the needs of the organisation. That way, you can usually work out something that suits everyone

@GhostCurry

“SnuggyBuggy

The problem with reducing by an hour each day is either someone has to cover your work for that hour on top of their own or they have to hire a person to work 1 hour a day 5 days a week.”

It really doesn’t work that way in the real world. Unless you are literally working on a production line in a factory, there is no need to hire another employee to fill in that missing hour 🙄

The work either needs doing or it doesn't or else the service users either expect to be able to speak to someone at that time or they don't depending on job. Otherwise management would leap at the opportunity to save money.

I went part time after adoption leave, I work four short days 8:30-4:30, although I am able to move my lunch to allow me to finish at 3:30 while my sons school doesn’t have wrap around care due to covid. This is reviewed with my employer every four weeks.

I’m the only person who is part time on my team, as a business however we have a significant proportion of part time staff at various levels of responsibility. I have been promoted while working part time, as have others. A part timer who recently left my team to work elsewhere regularly gained the largest performance based bonus despite working four full days when most of her colleagues worked five full days.

My partner fairly recently started a new job in the same industry and he requested part time hours at interview, he gained the position and this request was approved.

It does depend on your career, if you’re someone who is going to essentially need part time work for a good chunk of time it is sensible to choose a career path that is suited to part time working. Its also important to be honest and open with your employer, we had someone we employed on a fulltime basis who agreed to full time hours, within a week of starting they requested a huge daily reduction of hours, so they clearly misled us at interview. Our department head let them go.

Whatever happened to jobsharing? That was popular in the late 90s, two people took on the same role and split it. If promotions are going they should allow two people to apply as one imo to make it fairer. You'd have to pick someone good to partner up with though!

I agree, I think part time work is looked at as a 'way to earn a little extra cash for the house pot', or for bored housewives/mums to get out the house.
It's wrong and prevents many people from having a satisfying career.
On the flip side though, I can understand the perks of having full time workers in a company for costs, continuity etc. Although I must admit we prefer part time people as then you have someone to cover the other for holidays and sickness.