AIBU to think part timers should get a better deal

[Frazzledme]

I've worked part time when my kids were small but it was so s* I've gone full time now. As a job the pay tends to be crap, there are hardly any jobs to pick from and I've worked in a few teams where they could never get over that I was into my job and wanted to do well. Where I work they're quite big on inclusion and diversity but if I ever mention anything about making things better for part timers and having more flexibility it's like tumbleweeds going past. I'm ok with my hours now, but some people might want to change if they have kids etc. I'd like to use my experience to improve things for others. Is there something I'm not getting why people are so funny about it?

Also I know some people see it as a choice thing, but it's not really. If it costs more to work than not work with childcare then part time hours often make sense. No tax to pay so hourly pay goes up.

Thinking of doing an article for our group magazine to highlight how things could be better. Is this a good idea? What sort of things should I include?

Or should I just think "I'm alright jack" now I've got my cosy full time job again and people seem to like and respect me.

Having worked in Human Resources those who do condensed hours so fewer days seemed to suffer less detriment than those who do set hours such as 10 to 2. Partly due to employers get no free work and see the employees has not able to go above and beyond so not committed to the company.

Re your article, do you have experience in this? Is your writing style engaging etc? I don't think it is a bad idea in principle.

Part time workers have a reputation of being lazy or slackers when sometimes they end up doing more work in less time than full timers. They miss out on a lot of happenings at work.
Employers find it cheaper to hire 1 full timer than 2 job shares.

I found it frustrating working full time along the 2, 3 and 4 daysers as they are never around when we have a question for them urgently, need to fill them in on any new info and keep telling others that they arent in or take in messages for them. It's unfair how some seem yo get a better screw than others in terms of school hours, flexibility and longer weekends. Employers should offer or not offer it equally and openly to all.
I dont understand why in your op you moan about pay when you are literally paid the same hourly rate as full time, no childcare costs on your day off, have more time for yourself and family and already benefitting from flexibility. I think 4 or 3 days a week job is a dream. Add on school hours and im really jealous! So yabu because part timers are lucky and they are a burden on full timers so they shouldnt moan.

Depends where you work I guess. I work fo4 a large bank, and they bend over backwards to accommodate the needs of part time colleagues. When my DCs were young I was allowed to start after school drop offs and finish in time to pick DCs up. And that’s still the case in my work place. But the business also has to balance their needs with worker’s needs, and sometimes part timers have unrealistic expectations of being able to do everything a full time colleague does, when it’s not always possible.

I had to give up my career as p/t wasn't possible & now work in the public sector.

I have a few friends & family in the public sector (doctors, teachers, police, civil service) & they all have a lot more flexibility with their working patterns. It seem to impact them less in terms of progression then my friends in the private sector.

@Cocomarine

My large company is full of well paid people at middle levels (some at very senior, but not many) in interesting jobs, with career profession - who are part time.

What do they all have in common?

They took the time to get to that level before going part time.

Oh look everybody - someone who thinks that low-paid part-timers are all architects of their own misfortune and only have themselves to blame.

It may depend on which sector you work in and even on the management within that sector. I taught (primary) part-time for years and definitely feel it was a bit of a bum deal. I actually took a pay cut to find a part time role (ok that was my choice, but it was impossible to find full-time work on my pay level). You couldn't apply for any promotions as they wanted full-timers yet the expectations of subject leadership, running clubs etc was the same whether you were part-time or full-time. There was also a general sense of part-timers being an inconvenience (although maybe this was just where I worked ). I also felt more insecure in my part-time role. There was a threat of redundancy at one point and I felt that leadership would rather cut down on the part-timers than the full-timers.

I wouldn't have changed it though. I'm glad I had those extra couple of days a week at home when my children were very small. I am back full-time now and do feel like my kids - who are still primary-aged - are missing out a bit. They have to go to breakfast and after-school club every day. Prep/marking that I could previously have caught up with on my days off now has to be done at the weekend, cutting into family time. I am also more tired in the evenings so don't seem to do as much with them. Financially we are much better off though and I do like the continuity of being in the classroom every day.

Interestingly, I do feel like I did a better job when I was part-time as I had more energy and more time to prepare.

@oldballs part timers are not a burden on full timers if both doing there job properly
Job sharers often don't cost that much more and for a smaller company can be the way to go as always someone to cover
If someone is off sick then at least half job gets done and often the other will work to cover , same as holidays

My experience of working PT isn't like yours either.
I've moved jobs, been promoted, work in senior management all since going PT.

You've also contradicted yourself even in your OP - saying the pay is rubbish then later saying the pay (hourly rate) goes up when you work PT.
So maybe it is something to do with the way the article is written ?
I've got no idea how long articles are in your work magazine, or how serious or 'deep' or interesting or even truthful they need to be.
The idea of promoting people being able to work part time is a good one, but people that edit any magazine are usually looking for a particular angle, so maybe you need to look more at reporting on success stories of PT working and steer well away from a sort of a moan or criticism of current practice ? (not saying your article does that, but it might be a fresh pair of eyes could spot something like that).

PT work is so great for so many people, and helps employers retain good staff - like all sorts of flexibility does - more so than pay in a lot of cases, but not every employer has caught on to that yet.
Maybe do a bit of research into the topp100 companies and share some really good examples ?

I have been promoted and moved department since going part time. And yes I started as full time. I'm trapped working for them.
People on this thread say to start full time and then ask for part time but how do you change employer? It can be difficult to go full time if you are part time for a reason. You might be able to sustain full time for a few months but if the new employer refuses and you have to go around the loop again, it might be unsustainable. It can be a barrier to your career.

People on this thread say to start full time and then ask for part time but how do you change employer?

If you're more senior, you can position it to potential employers as an opportunity for them to benefit from having your skills and experience in their workforce at a reduced cost.

Although I have noticed that even my employer has started including a line in job adverts saying that the role can be part time or full time for the right person, so also about finding the right employer.

Do agree that it's a bit of a tough one though.

One of the problems with part-time that never gets brought up is that there is only a certain percentage of people you can have working part-time before problems start to crop up. Also people rarely go back to full time if they can.

I work for a large UK firm who introduced a part-time scheme for parents in the early 2000's. It was term time working 9-3 with an expectation you moved back to full time when your kids were older. Sounds great doesn't it only they had to scrap it recently because no one has been able to get it agreed in the last 6-7 years, as no one ever moved back to full time.

It has also been causing lots of issues in small teams where only 1-2 people can be off at the same time because no one else on the team could get time off for school holidays as other people in the team with term time contracts were off.

I'm civil service and whilst I'm full time I compress my hours so I do them over 4 days. So does my DH who is also CS. However I have also line managed (and recruited) PT staff (men and women). It has never been a problem. They get offered the same salary (pro rata) and all the same development opportunities. I fully encourage flexible working and know that family comes first.

I also think no parents are discriminated against when it comes to part time and flexible hours.

I work somewhere that is very family friendly and has lots of part time stuff. But when I requested to go down to four days I was told it wasn't possible because I do not have childcare needs.

I've had a good experience being part time. I started out in a call centre, didn't like the job but the hours were 10-2 and the full time staff did 10-6.

I now do admin for a manufacturing company. I'm 28 hours a week so not far off full time, the full time staff do 37 hours. Our managers are very much "work to live, don't live to work" and flexibility is granted to all staff, not just the part timers. It's a great atmosphere.

I've worked part time, PAYE, doing accounts, for the last 18 years, since pg with Ds1, and I have no intention of ever working full time again. Mine are both at the end of secondary now.

Accounts works very well with part time work. I haven't experienced any problems or issues and it's worked quite nicely. Although to be fair the nature of my job is that there isn't career profession, just keeping up to date with legislation for current events, ie the joys of furlough portals!

Problem is 2 part time staff cost more than 1 full time.

Part time and consolidated hours are common in my industry, both for practitioners, management and SLT

Omg. I have a thread about asking my employer to reduce my hours by 1 each day so not alot.
And the negativity in that post is pretty grim. Basically the consensus was that I'm being a cheeky fucker for asking so soon into a job / childcare my problem not my employers / wfh- whilst you have kids- no way! Most people just said they would point blank refuse my request.
Things are really crap for PT staff. If you're low entry it's near impossible to progress.
If we don't change our thinking we're never going to get anywhere!

My experience has been it's very dependant on how part time you want to be. I wanted to do 3 days post Mat leave, this was refused, we agreed on 3.5 in the end with wfh on that half day (pre COVID) everyone I know who has requested 4 days has been fine but anyone who has requested less has had similar challenges.
I can understand this as it does impact others if they aren't prepared to to job sharing etc or you just end up with a full time workload on less pay!

My experience is different: I am senior management in a mid sized private consultancy. I promote flexibility when hiring and for existing staff and the company does too. I started part time (3 days), got promoted twice, moved to 4 days (due to workload) and then got promoted twice more. However, by boss then moved me to full time as she said I was doing the work anyway, so why shouldn't I be paid for it! She was right, I do work full time and then some, but have all the flexibility I need for school drop offs/ pick ups, anything else etc
We have a number of the team working part time but yes, it tends to be 4 days per week that is usual, but there are a few 3 day a week team members too.

I don't think I have ever heard a complaint or even comment in my current company about someone not being in/ available as its their day off. Flexibility is a given.

I have family who are professionals and they have been ok dropping their hours to part time but that's only because there is a demand for their roles or that they are pretty senior.

Your OP does read a bit like you're expecting to be paid more because of doing fewer hours. Also, if every parent worked part time and were below the tax threshold, where would that leave things?
Employees hire people to meet the needs of their business. They can decide when the hours are needed. While it's nice to have flexible employers, your home-life demands aren't really something they would plan for and you cannot expect a business to pay you handsomely for providing a service that just doesn't meet their needs. If you hired a nanny to look after your children when you were at work but s/he then told you s/he can only work nights or two days a week from next month, would you continue to employ them because it was what suited them or would you find somebody else who suited your needs better?
Just because you want to have the perfect part time job it doesn't mean enmployers have to offer it, unfortunately.

Some managers aren't great at managing part timers and I agree there are a lot of challenges in a team with some part time and some full time staff. In my experience as a full timer you can end up having to do the part timers work if they are given too much work for their hours or if some sort of query comes up about something they've done and it's their day off.

What I think would help is realistic workloads for hours worked and job shares with good communication in roles where service users may need to get in contact at any point in the week so other colleagues don't have to play detective.

The public needs to be more accepting too, I've had plenty of service users really kick off because they wanted to speak to a particular person and were told that they are part time.

@BackforGood I mean that generally the pay rate is lower than full time jobs as part time jobs tend to be less senior/ advertised at lower salaries. Yes that means for some people after tax it's ok if you're talking the difference between £20k or £25k pro rata - take home pay is the same. But you're likely to be penalised in other ways, getting a mortgage - moving to a new company etc. Also if you previously worked for £30k full time then £20k is a big drop but not uncommon in the move from ft to pt because of the roles available.