Private schools dilemma - can anyone help?

[loulou3311]

I’m in a bit of a pickle and am hoping some of you wise Mumsnetters will be able to help!

I have one daughter who will be starting primary school next year. We’re hoping to move house before that happens in order to reduce our mortgage (it’s just about affordable at the moment but we don’t have much cash left over for anything else - we’ve not taken a holiday in five years for example).

The problem is, I’m so confused about schools. Where we are currently is not good on the secondary school front (the one she would go to “requires improvement” according to Ofsted) and I know it’s eight years away at the moment, but it really worries me.

There are however several private schools in the local area that are very good and offer a number of bursary places. DH and I couldn’t afford to send DD there on our salaries, but if she were to get a bursary it would be a different matter.

My question is - how difficult is it to get a bursary to a good private school in London? I’m imagining it must be extremely competitive and therefore the chances of her getting into one are very slim. But if she were to get in it would obviously be a fantastic opportunity.

So the dilemma is, do we stay in London, send her to primary school here and continue paying the very high mortgage so we can keep the (slim chance that she could get a) bursary option open, or do we move somewhere like Kent before she starts primary school, where we’d have more disposable income and therefore a better quality of life, but probably no private school option for DD?

Does anyone have any advice and what would you do in our position? I’m so confused and really want the best for my beautiful DD!

Everywhere has private schools, including Kent which also has excellent grammar schools. I really don’t understand why anyone would make life changing decisions on something as nebulous as a possibility of perhaps getting a bursary. That’s dreaming, not planning.

I moved out to Bexley in London zone 5. Kids around here go to grammars in Bexley , Bromley and Kent.

There are some good non Grammar options too (esp. in Greenwich and Bromley).

I wouldn’t recommend private. We considered years ago when we had the money but things changed and we’d be utterly stuffed now trying to find even h as of if the fees!

If < and that’s a big if > your DD is offered a bursary , chances of getting a full bursary are extremely low. You might get offered something like 10-30% .
bulk of full bursaries are going to children from a single parent homes or children from deprived areas in London, children who have immigrated to the UK.. etc. This shows just how competitive London is. I think a very small percent of full or 50% bursaries would go to the squeezed middle.

Also keep in mind that your Dc might excel in her early years but has a setback in years 4 or 5, which is completely normal.

My 3 Dcs are all in private school and it’s just so stressful with applications and worrying about securing places , can’t imagine going through that with worrying about getting a substantial bursary at the same time.

Bursaries at good London private day schools are quite hard to come by as they are usually awarded to exceptionally able pupils based on performance in the entrance exams.

The "easy" route is often music - a 25% music scholarship is often offered regardless of income and the standard is not that high Grade 6ish on first instrument and 5 on another (especially if one of them is something like viola which is in demand for orchestras). If you are in London then there are a number of options for good and not excessively expensive music tuition.

I'm in Kent and there are some fantastic state primary schools here, with a high grammar success rate for secondary. My daughter went to a private primary - mainly because she could be there from 8am to 6pm and as a sole parent that suited me. I wouldn't say that she is academically gifted but she went on to the local grammar and did well.

Thank you so much for the responses everyone - this has been incredibly helpful. It sounds like bursaries are extremely competitive (not surprising at all really!) and with our low salaries, we would need something like a 70% one at least to be able to afford the fees. Taking all that into consideration, it seems like moving out to reduce our mortgage payments is probably the best option.

To the person who said it’s all such a juggling act - it really, really is!

Send your daughter to a state school AND be interested in her education. Then at is the single most thing you can do for any child - prioritise time with her to help with her learning and help her enjoy learning from a young age. Read to her and with her, help her with maths and science, if the homework is optional- do it anyway.
Save your money and use it to support her in sports clubs, getting a music teacher for guitar or piano, or a tutor when she’s older and her maths homework is beyond you. Or sending her to an art class or to tennis lessons.

In your position, OP, I think you are right to move. I am almost at the end of the private school tunnel (including bursaries), and I can't describe what a slog it has been.

Given that there is no guarantee of a secondary school bursary, the best thing you can do is move to somewhere with a good state primary, and then provide the 'extras' out of school. Even if you pay for sports/music/ballet/whatever your DD is interested in, you will still be paying massively less than you would do in school fees. Plus you will no doubt be actively interested and involved in what she's doing at school, which makes an immense difference. By the time children are 11, good (or bad) habits are largely established - and if they then move on to a decent state secondary school (ideally a grammar school!), the chances are they will be absolutely fine.

@Icecreamsoda99

Kent has some great schools including state schools. It's been said many times on these threads not to send your child to private school unless you can afford the lifestyle that goes with it - extra curricula and trips abroad.

I wouldn't agree with this. My experience (particularly of boys' schools) is that the pupils are largely unaware of any of this. I couldn't begin to afford any of the 'extras', and it has not been a big deal. One of the DC moaned, once, but it has been clear that the choice is either state school and more extra-curricular stuff, or independent school and no extras. I am by no means the only parent in this boat!

I'd advise moving somewhere with outstanding state primary schools. You can then apply for year 3 entry for bursary at a prep school and see if your daughter gets in. That is the age you can apply for a bursary at prep school. It's more likely you'll get a bursary at a private secondary/senior school if she's already been to a prep school. You do need to be aware however that a bursary will cap your earnings. For example if you were awarded a 70 per cent bursary your income will still be assessed every year and if you ever earn any more the bursary will be adjusted and you will pay that extra to the school.

Also there is an education section of mumsnet which is the best place to post this thread with lots of people who can advise you.

Private schooling isn't a great option imo. 1) private school tends to show kids a very exclusive (not nice imo) view of the world. 2) she'll be the poor child. At least that's how she'll feel. She will worry about fitting in, won't want to invite friends over to her house etc.

Totally agree with this (and I’m privately educated). Move to an area with decent state schools and save your money for extracurricular and family stuff. Private schools are not a silver bullet: some are very good, some are absolutely bloody appalling. Bursaries are also extremely competitive so I wouldn’t make any decisions on the basis that she might get one, as much as it’s natural for us all to think our own children are exceptionally bright/talented!

We moved to Kent for schools albeit private schools and more house for our money etc.
Love Kent and highly recommend it.

There are incredible state schools here and private schools.

I'm a big fan of all the schools in Kent. They're all lovely. But for private education you need to know what you're getting yourself into. Bursaries and scholarships exist but they rarely pay the full fees and are hard to come by and very very unlikely to pay for your child's education or even a meaningful contribution to it.

My two DC have attended a really fantastic prep (DS is still here). And DD is now at an incredible private senior school.

The reality on fees: by the time DS leaves the lovely prep, we will have spent more than £220,000 on prep fees alone for both of them.

DD has a scholarship for senior school (small percentage of fees - tiny!) and by the time she leaves senior school, her senior school fees will have cost us in excess of £170,000 (the scholarship discount included and this is a day school!)

DS is fairly bright and is keen to attend a particular very prestigious senior school. If he ends up there, his senior schooling will cost us in excess of £190,000. Probably more as their fees are going up.

So that would take our school fee (and this is fees only not inc uniform, trips, special events etc etc) on our 2 DC to £580,000 and once you add in a few trips, music lessons, extra activities and uniform, you can round that up to £600k.

It's a big commitment. So far we are fortunate that we are able to do this without any sacrifices. If I had to make big sacrifices, I would think twice about this. And at no point would I rely on the hope of a bursary or scholarship. Especially at prep as they are rarer than hens teeth.

If we didn't have the school fees we could all fly business class on our family holidays or DH and I could retire a year or two earlier.

We also have to keep thinking ahead esp now with covid and the possibility that DHs job may be in danger. My industry is fine and I'm doing well. Whilst I could carry the household no worries I couldn't carry the school fees on top with one income.

Private education wasn't something we undertook lightly. We worked the figures out and worked.

I'm very happy to provide my DC with best possible education. However also mindful that DH won't get his wish of retiring early. I don't mind so much but I know he does.

If we lost an income in the household, we would not rely on a bursary from one of the schools, we would have to seriously reconsider it due to the cost.

Think long and hard. Don't jump into it.

So my DD year 7 was freaking out over the flu jab (her school is a boarding school so they do the injection instead of nasal one). I was a bit of coward, I signed her up and told her the school would do it. DD had a bad experience a couple of years ago when admitted to hospital and had to have bloods taken /injections etc she remembered it being seriously painful (she was very dehydrated).

As it turns out the school nurse handled it brilliantly. DD walked in and announced she hates needles and didn't want to have it. The nurse talked her through the whole thing and asked her if she'd give it a go. After some 'agonizing' she agreed. The nurse told her to look away and 'say ready'. DD closed her eyes, said ready and by the time she thought to ask 'is it over' the nurse was getting a plaster and she'd hadn't felt it.

Leave it up to the nurse - they know what they're doing!

Move to Hampshire where the state schools are fantastic and no grammar school angst either. Problem solved!

I’d move, if things are already tight then even with a bursary you wouldn’t be able to have the quality of life you could otherwise afford. If you’re thinking of Kent primarily for schools, be sure you’re want to get into the grammar system.

Bursaries are extremely competitive and also very varied in terms of criteria.

I work at a London pre-prep and prep - one that would described as an ‘aspirational’ school

Our bursaries are given to children from year 3 onwards who pass the entrance requirements.

Essentially, if we’re offering 50 places your child will need to come in that top 50 before a bursary is considered.

I don’t agree with this method but that for me and the Finance Committee to thrash out.

One thing to note - it’s easier to get bursaries if schools are not generally full.

There’s isn’t much cost to the school to subsidise additional places if they aren’t generally full. If you are then each bursary is an actual deduction to your income which may or may not be tenable.

Also you will be thoroughly financially vetted. Savings over a certain level will be queried, high equity levels in your house will possibly see your application refused.

Clothes, food etc - everything is assessed against a benchmark which we’ve had several parents querying as they feel the expectations are unrealistic.

My experience is that a relative got a scholarship and a bursary so didn't pay much for a 25k place. He went to a prep to 13 years. He wasn't one of the super bright, but he played in sport teams and played two musical instruments reasonably well. He isn't in your face boastful. But could have conversation with an adult about politics or ethics. His parents were professionals in between jobs, so low income that year. They want to adhere to the charity status rules, but they want someone who will fit in easily. He didnt live in the area when they applied for the place. You can never rely in it. There are some very good state schools where results are really good in home counties, Kent, Essex etc. I think moving out depends on your work really. Life us miserable if you're travelling too much.

It's different with diff schools. The ones we were looking at offered means tested bursary up to 100% but they were super-super selective and for example took in 10 (I think) kids from the 700 applicants at the deferred 11+ stage. So the kids had to show how gifted they are.

Not so selective ones (general, noname private schools) I found offer less bursary in general and more based on how the kid is doing year on year.

One super selective in west london for example has about 60% of the kids on bursaries and they spend around a million pounds on these places. Because for them it's the talent that matters not the family money. But I think they are the odd one out.

on the fitting in part: the kids don't generally notice it. Parents on the other hand... some are lovely, but many are really annoying snobs :)

Hackney, Clapton and homerton area have outstanding secondary schools.. no need to move out of London if you can't be arsed with the commute. Or if you can shift jobs give the whole kent/London competitive angsting a miss and love to an area of the country with a generally good standard of education actus the board....

@TheSunIsStillShining My experience is a bit similar, in that the most famous and schools with the highest entry bars offer the best scholarships/bursaries to children who they think have something 'extra' to offer (beyond being bright - there's not much money in being clever, as all the children who are offered places to these schools are by definition clever) and who will get something extra in return.

I've heard great things about bromley's schools too and Kent. Also sutton- but I may be wrong about that one.

DD has a 95% bursary to a very well known and selective school. We are very much the squeezed middle so it is certainly not impossible. However she is pretty good academically across the board and exceptionally good at a couple of things.

The main stumbling block for you is really that you have only the faintest idea as yet what sort of school may suit your child. In your shoes, I'd wait until about Y3 or 4 before deciding what kind of school to go for next. Plenty of time to move out of London then if you want a grammar at that point (there are a few grammars in London too but generally v v v selective, as much so as the private schools).

We send one of ours to public school and we are just getting ready to send the next. Here are the facts from our viewpoint.

Some public schools are super exclusive and they stand out Eton, Harrow etc), most are not at all and are usually filled out with families who struggle to pay.

They are not bastions of white. At our school the mix is actually the other way, although white remains the majority.

The equipment and spend per pupil at a public school is much higher and class sizes much smaller.

The expectations and discipline standards of our school are much higher than any local state school (we keep in touch with peers in other places)

Even the 'rich' parents don't have school fees just lying around waiting to be spent. If you will severely struggle to pay the fees but care passionately about your offspring's education you fit the profile.

We don't regret sending ours, but plenty of very successful people came out of the state system.