No apology after hurtful words

[Elephantsintheroom]

DH has said some things which I have found extremely hurtful.

I struggled after DS was born a few years ago. He was very ill, thought we might lose him (and now has some long term issues). I struggled to bond with him and in the very early days said some things about how I wished he hadn’t been born.

I was unwell. Have had counselling, medication. Took a few months to be ok but now a few years on am in a great place (DS doing well too). Feel proud of myself for getting through it.

In the context of a disagreement, in which I said I didn’t feel appreciated, I said I was sad that DH never said I was a good mum. He said that was because of the things I had said been DS was born. He said that didn’t make me a good mum. I said I knew that wasn’t good, but I was unwell and now I was a good mum in spite of that and would be nice if he could recognise that.

He said maybe I wasn’t unwell, maybe I was iust horrible. He just said I don’t know what you want from me and left the room.

Since then I have said a few times how hurt I feel. But DH has done nothing to try and make me feel better.

DH never apologises for anything so feel I have to learn to live with the fact that’s how he thinks of me, or if he doesn’t he doesn’t care enough to want to make me feel better.

But I’m finding it so hard trying to squash my feeling of hurt down. I have worked hard to forgive myself for how I struggled but this is making it hard.

But I want to make it work.

AIBU to try and squash these feelings down because I know there is no hope for an apology? Or is this a recipe for a disaster?

Don’t try to squash these feelings down. You can try to get them in perspective, but don’t dismiss them.

He has not been through what you have, and for him to show such little empathy is very concerning.

@Elephantsintheroom

Ok those who are asking (good) questions about my behaviour. Grateful for your input. What can I do to make things better? I feel like I need this hurt acknowledged.

You can't and it never will. It won't be acknowledged the next time,or the next.

Because he can't or won't, and finds it easier to turn the tables on you when he feels "under attack".

I bet my last penny that this is a pattern of behaviour for him every time you complain,insinuate he's less than perfect etc. If it is,then it's irrelevant what you said, kitty hat the argument was,what he used to shut you up. Any argument will end up the exact same way. You blamed and hurt and him digging his heels in ,adding extra blame for not happily being his emotional punching bag.

He'll never give you what you want or need, so what you need to really think about is whether you can cope living like this or whether you deserve better.

I would tell him. You know what, you must think I’m a piece of expletive on a shoe because I don’t want you to mollycoddle me , just to appreciate how far I’ve come and if you don’t think I’ve come very far well you are in the minority. I’m going to keep improving. Up to you whether you stand static or try to improve yourself too.

He's a twat, get out of this marriage or you'll be living with a cold, uncaring man. Will he treat your DS in this way.

@2020iscancelled

Well it seems that your husband is either

A) malicious
B) emotionally incompetent and a judgemental prick

Malicious because he has purposefully said things which he knows will hurt you.

Or emotionally incompetent because he cannot recognise the difference between trauma, depression / PND and just being “a horrible person” even several years down the line, living day in and day out with the person.

I’m inclined to think it’s A - that he is a nasty piece of work and will say whatever he needs to in order to feel in control, ensuring to damage your self worth and confidence in the process.

He has taken your most vulnerable and traumatic experience and used it against you. Of course he won’t apologise - he’s done it on purpose, people who maliciously hurt others on purpose don’t apologise for it.

👏👏👏

He sounds horrible.

Telling you that you might be a horrible person and a shit parent. Anyone would be upset by that, and when you tell him how he made you feel, he calls you a dick and tells you it's all your fault. He never apologises. If he is not engaging at all or doesn't care how you feel, I am not sure what to do. If it was just this one issue then I think you could just mentally compartmentalise it and move on, but if he is just generally like this, then I think this will be added into a massive long list of things you end up resenting him for. Would he go for counselling? It doesnt sound like he really cares how you feel

OP, I actually find his lack of empathy and coldness inexcusable, assuming there is no other information. Struggling with a newborn is by no means unusual. Saying you wished your baby hadn’t been born - even if true doesn’t make you a ‘bad’ mum. He might feel this, but he is being unreasonable. Was your son safe, fed, warm? Is he now? And are you doing the majority of that? I bet you are.

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but you have asked.

You said But I’m finding it so hard trying to squash my feeling of hurt down. I have worked hard to forgive myself for how I struggled but this is making it hard

I don't know your dh of course, but is there a possibility that he was terribly hurt about what you said at the time? That he couldn't get his head round hearing his wife, the mother of your new baby, saying something like that ? You have done really well to have moved on - to accept this was part of illness and not 'the real you', and you have sought help, and worked through the fact you did say those things, but possibly your dh isn't there yet ? Maybe he hasn't been ready to move forward?
He hasn't brought this up - you did. He tried to walk away. He didn't try to criticise you. You asked him and he said he didn't want to discuss it as he didn't want to upset you.

I know there are a lot of posters on MN who automatically assume the man is 'wrong' just because he is a man, but my suggestion is that he hasn't come as far along the journey as you have, and yet, he is being torn apart here for the fact he s dealing with his mental health challenges in a different way from the way you are. I suggest he could do with more support, not more of a kicking.

You've come through a lot together. Parents of children with additional needs have a very high divorce rate due to all the stresses and strains and different ways people deal with things. This is just the next step to work with.

I know there are a lot of posters on MN who automatically assume the man is 'wrong' just because he is a man, but my suggestion is that he hasn't come as far along the journey as you have, and yet, he is being torn apart here for the fact he s dealing with his mental health challenges in a different way from the way you are. I suggest he could do with more support, not more of a kicking.

No. Come on. Being a new dad - while I understand it is hard and tiring and everything else - of a sick baby must be very hard, but isn’t comparable to a mum having their first baby. The burden of carrying and caring almost always falls on the mum. So if a person says, “I wish X hadn’t been born” they usually mean, “I am sickeningly tired and depressed.” If he doesn’t have the empathy to understand this, my sympathy for him is limited.

@flaviaritt

I know there are a lot of posters on MN who automatically assume the man is 'wrong' just because he is a man, but my suggestion is that he hasn't come as far along the journey as you have, and yet, he is being torn apart here for the fact he s dealing with his mental health challenges in a different way from the way you are. I suggest he could do with more support, not more of a kicking.

No. Come on. Being a new dad - while I understand it is hard and tiring and everything else - of a sick baby must be very hard, but isn’t comparable to a mum having their first baby. The burden of carrying and caring almost always falls on the mum. So if a person says, “I wish X hadn’t been born” they usually mean, “I am sickeningly tired and depressed.” If he doesn’t have the empathy to understand this, my sympathy for him is limited.

Another award-worthy post here

@BackforGood

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but you have asked.

You said But I’m finding it so hard trying to squash my feeling of hurt down. I have worked hard to forgive myself for how I struggled but this is making it hard

I don't know your dh of course, but is there a possibility that he was terribly hurt about what you said at the time? That he couldn't get his head round hearing his wife, the mother of your new baby, saying something like that ? You have done really well to have moved on - to accept this was part of illness and not 'the real you', and you have sought help, and worked through the fact you did say those things, but possibly your dh isn't there yet ? Maybe he hasn't been ready to move forward?
He hasn't brought this up - you did. He tried to walk away. He didn't try to criticise you. You asked him and he said he didn't want to discuss it as he didn't want to upset you.

I know there are a lot of posters on MN who automatically assume the man is 'wrong' just because he is a man, but my suggestion is that he hasn't come as far along the journey as you have, and yet, he is being torn apart here for the fact he s dealing with his mental health challenges in a different way from the way you are. I suggest he could do with more support, not more of a kicking.

You've come through a lot together. Parents of children with additional needs have a very high divorce rate due to all the stresses and strains and different ways people deal with things. This is just the next step to work with.

Thank you for sharing these thoughts. I posted in aibu because I want to get different views. I actually think you might be right about him not having come so far on the journey. But he wouldn’t be able to recognise that and I’m not sure without counselling he can make any progress. He’d need to want to progress I suppose.

Not sure couples counselling would help, but will give this some thought. We tried in before, probably too soon after DS was born. And he has since said the counsellor said it was all my fault (which she didn’t, she said it was all about our communication, both of us)

And really, OP: you said you wished your child hadn’t been born. So? You didn’t beat him. You didn’t (and don’t) starve him or berate him. This isn’t about you, it’s something to do with your DH.

You’re upset and hurt. You’ve told him you’re upset and hurt. He’s dismissed you, refuses to acknowledge or discuss your feelings, he’s continued to insult you. This man does not value you. He doesn’t respect you. He doesn’t love you. Living with someone who never takes responsibility or apologises is emotionally draining. I think you need to start planning how to live without him.

@BackforGood

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but you have asked.

You said But I’m finding it so hard trying to squash my feeling of hurt down. I have worked hard to forgive myself for how I struggled but this is making it hard

I don't know your dh of course, but is there a possibility that he was terribly hurt about what you said at the time? That he couldn't get his head round hearing his wife, the mother of your new baby, saying something like that ? You have done really well to have moved on - to accept this was part of illness and not 'the real you', and you have sought help, and worked through the fact you did say those things, but possibly your dh isn't there yet ? Maybe he hasn't been ready to move forward?
He hasn't brought this up - you did. He tried to walk away. He didn't try to criticise you. You asked him and he said he didn't want to discuss it as he didn't want to upset you.

I know there are a lot of posters on MN who automatically assume the man is 'wrong' just because he is a man, but my suggestion is that he hasn't come as far along the journey as you have, and yet, he is being torn apart here for the fact he s dealing with his mental health challenges in a different way from the way you are. I suggest he could do with more support, not more of a kicking.

You've come through a lot together. Parents of children with additional needs have a very high divorce rate due to all the stresses and strains and different ways people deal with things. This is just the next step to work with.

Seriously?

In several year OP has done nothing at all that might at least make him think(if not express) she's a good mum because in the early days she couldn't cope with everything looking after a poorly newborn entails?

Bullshit!

On the very rare occasion my ex said sorry it was always followed with ‘sorry the fourgp but it’s all your fault/it’s not my fault’. You are wasting your time and effort if you think talking to him will change this. You’ve already seen a counsellor and he’s still blaming you for being ill. You’ve done great to get better despite him not because of his encouragement.

I was going to say it’s early days and let things settle a little but the fact that he lied about what the counsellor said shows he’s a cunt. Sorry op.

I don't know your dh of course, but is there a possibility that he was terribly hurt about what you said at the time? That he couldn't get his head round hearing his wife, the mother of your new baby, saying something like that ? You have done really well to have moved on - to accept this was part of illness and not 'the real you', and you have sought help, and worked through the fact you did say those things, but possibly your dh isn't there yet ? Maybe he hasn't been ready to move forward?
He hasn't brought this up - you did. He tried to walk away. He didn't try to criticise you. You asked him and he said he didn't want to discuss it as he didn't want to upset you.

I'm inclined to agree with this. Maybe your DH struggled to reconcile your words/behaviour from that time with the person he thought he knew. He evidently hadn't forgiven you for it, that much is clear.

It sounds to me like he's being deliberately cruel. The early days with a newborn are so, so hard and while it might have been hard for him too, that doesn't give him the right to use something you said in your lowest moments against you. He wasn't recovering (mentally and physically) from childbirth, dealing with a changed body, hormones all over the place, possibly breastfeeding on top of caring for a sick baby, was he? I don't want to extrapolate from one argument but if this is an indication of his general character then I think you deserve so much better. You should be proud of how far you've come, and so should he. I'd find it very difficult to get past something like this, especially with him doubling down on it.

@2020iscancelled
Great post.

OP,
You sound like a great mum who has moved on and thrived from a very stressful time.
I can only imagine the stress of it all for you both, but for a new mother it is particularly raw.

Your husband sounds very cold, coupling that with his refusal to engage about how hurt you feel, must be very difficult.

You have grown so much through such a difficult time but it doesn't sound as if your husband has kept up.

His need to incorrectly insist your joint counsellor blamed you for everything is very telling.

It must be very difficult to be positive living with such negativity.

Is this who he is and always has been, or has he changed hugely?

If this is who he is, it sounds like a miserable marriage.

I'm so sorry.

My ex said it was me that was the problem

He was genuinely shocked and upset when I left him. It took him almost a year of begging and pleading before he would finally a) apologise and b) admit that I had in fact told him what the problems were and he had refused to acknowledge.

We have been split 16 years and I am sure that he would get back with me now if I said I wanted to. But I know for a fact that he hasnt changed, which is why his LT DP has recently left him citing exactly the same reasons I did. He was shocked and upset then too.....

I should say, him begging and pleading for me to come back.

Ah OP read your post and was going to suggest joint counselling for you both to come to terms with the PND period, like others have said, it could have affected him in a secondary way (frightening/against his world view of perfect "mum", will things be ok) but I see he's against that and repeats the message that 'you' are the problem. And that I think is probably the root of the issue here, refusal to think about how you feel, that period, even how he feels is an issue - especially as he is stuck in 'you were horrible' (you were ill). It's not a mature or supportive response on his part. This type of thing can just fester, and it sounds like it is already. Both of your feelings are important, but the difference is you are willing to 'go there' but he isn't. Time might be a healer here but context is everyone, the rest of your marriage might be strong enough to let this rest for a while, or not. You're incredibly resilient to get to this point, I know first hand the struggles of pnd. I hope you feel proud of what you've been through- it sounds like your friends and family recognise this.

@PyongyangKipperbang

Mine was the exactly the same. 1 - it was me that was the problem. 2 - He was genuinely shocked and upset when I left him. He threatened to end our relationship during many arguments over the years in order to manipulate me into being quiet, making excuses for him and putting up with unacceptable behaviour. I only ever said it when I really meant it on the day we separated. 3 - he still maintains he was a great husband and father despite all the evidence to the contrary. 4 - We have been split 3 years and I am sure that he would get back with me now if I said I wanted to. But I know for a fact that he hasnt changed, which is why his girlfriends keep breaking up with him citing exactly the same reasons I did.

Sorry to derail your thread OP. Do you feel it may help you to speak with a counsellor by yourself? Do your close friends and family have concerns about your relationship with him? When you’re upset about other things does he give you hugs without you prompting him to?

[quote thefourgp]@PyongyangKipperbang

Mine was the exactly the same. 1 - it was me that was the problem. 2 - He was genuinely shocked and upset when I left him. He threatened to end our relationship during many arguments over the years in order to manipulate me into being quiet, making excuses for him and putting up with unacceptable behaviour. I only ever said it when I really meant it on the day we separated. 3 - he still maintains he was a great husband and father despite all the evidence to the contrary. 4 - We have been split 3 years and I am sure that he would get back with me now if I said I wanted to. But I know for a fact that he hasnt changed, which is why his girlfriends keep breaking up with him citing exactly the same reasons I did.

Sorry to derail your thread OP. Do you feel it may help you to speak with a counsellor by yourself? Do your close friends and family have concerns about your relationship with him? When you’re upset about other things does he give you hugs without you prompting him to?[/quote]
This is helpful thank you. I’m having some counselling myself which is helping me feel a bit stronger. My self esteem has taken a but of a blow.

Yes, my family have concerns that he’s a narcissist basically.

I just feel like we’ve been through so much and if we both tried we could make it work. I don’t feel he is a bad person. His family never talk about their emotions ever. They’re very cold. I just don’t think he has the tools to deal with things.

That makes me want to fix things. But is that a good thing? I feel like it should be but i don’t know. Maybe I’m codependent?

It only takes one person to break a marriage but it takes two to fix it.

You will not fix this marriage on your own, and you will be the only one. Bascially he wants you in your box, not arguing, not questioning, not demanding.

If you can live as a Stepford wife then go right ahead, but you dont strike me as that type.

If your best friends husband had cheated on her but wanted to stay together and then refused to discuss it, refused counselling, refused to do anything apart from expect her to "get over it", what would you advise her to do?