to think that forgetting is accidental/unintentional?

[BertieBotts]

And therefore, is not something to see as immoral or feckless?

As in, if somebody forgets something, they didn't purposefully do this. You can't choose what you forget or not, it's just something that happens.

Like accidents, there is a degree of responsibility in that you can take steps to make something less likely to be forgotten e.g. writing a note, setting a phone reminder.

But most of the time it's not the person's fault, it's just something unintentional, and therefore you shouldn't get angry with somebody for forgetting something.

If I am NBU, why do people get so angry about forgotten things/events/tasks? Are they oversubscribing to the idea that it's possible to take responsibility? Or do they assume it's an excuse ie the person just couldn't be bothered to do the thing and lied and said they forgot?

Or can most people choose to remember certain things, and so the act of forgetting means that you didn't make this choice and is therefore an actual marker that you don't care about the thing?

(Full disclaimer, I have ADHD and I am wondering how NT people's brains work.)

Well to me there are different kinds of forgetfulness.

I get annoyed when people dont fully concentrate and done make the effort to remember, especially if they know they have a bad memory.

I can forget things - my short term memory can be pretty poor but if I focus then I can remember easily enough. Even making notes is enough to fix it in my head even if I don’t refer to them later.

Depends if it's a one-off or a pattern of behaviour. If you are usually on the ball but slip up and forget something, then I don't think you're especially culpable. But if you're frequently forgetful and don't take steps to improve your memory (through writing things down or setting alarms etc) then I see that as wilfully apathetic.

I was forgetful when I was younger because the consequences didn't matter too much. Now I've grown up and especially since having children I've made an effort to get more organised and arrange my life in such a way that remembering stuff is more likely, because the consequences if I don't are greater. For example, if I get up earlier I am less rushed in the morning and so have more time to think "what do I need?". Forgetting stuff at work will cost me my job so I have a system for dealing with routine requests and a system for dealing with those things that come out of the blue. Im now known for being organised and delivering what I say I'll do and I think part of that is because I overcompensate for my natural forgetfulness.

Or can most people choose to remember certain things, and so the act of forgetting means that you didn't make this choice and is therefore an actual marker that you don't care about the thing

Most people can manage to remember things that are important to them, even if it takes extra effort, eg notes and phone reminders.

I probably also have ADHD and it takes a lot of effort to remember things, but important things have to be remembered.

Therefore, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who routinely forget, because they haven't even tried basic coping strategies.

I'm forgetful, so I have to manage that. If I need to do something at work I need to put a reminder in my calendar. If I have plans I need to add them to a diary. Important info I need to email to myself and put in a folder where I can find it again. One off forgetting isn't a big deal, but consistent errors suggest someone can't be bothered as they haven't attempted any similar management techniques.

Forgetting small things is fine. Bins out, picking up milk, replacing loo roll - all very normal and forgivable. However, if that becomes a pattern, like i had an ex who ALWAYS forgot to clean the toilet, that's not forgetting, that's shit (ha) behaviour, and i don't have any patience for it.

Forgetting big things, things that cause significant inconvenience, to my mind happens because someone didn't take the thing seriously enough to write it down/set a reminder/concentrate when being given instructions, OR because they couldnt be fucked and assumed someone would pick up the slack.

I write down important things, or set reminders. I spend a lot of my time at work cleaning up after people who "just forgot, sorry" and it drives me fucking mental. It's so disrespectful. If your memory genuinely isn't good, there are thousands of apps designed to mitigate that. Otherwise, you're just kinda a dick.

I think the circumstances are important here.

The frustration of many posters here tends to the pattern of partners who 'forget' stuff that is mundane but important for the running of family life e.g. forget children need feeding but feed themselves, don't remember their mothers birthday so OPs arrange cards and flowers etc for their MIL. It infuriates because it means wife work is a woman's job and women's time is not as valuable as a man's.

That said everyone forgets things that's normal and most of us have strategies to reduce forgetting like lists calendars etc.

If you have ADHD I'm sure lots of people get frustrated as it appears to be a pattern but can you let people know remembering is just a bit harder for you? Do you have tools and strategies you can use?

Depends what they forget. Forget to buy toilet roll = not a moral failing. Forget to feed your dog for a week = moral failing.

You do what you care about.

It depends if it's a one off or not. I used to be forgetful but I realised that other people were annoyed/upset so now I always have a diary/notebook on me and make a note straight away if there's something I need to remember. I've already got my 2021 diary and transferred birthdays/anniversaries/important dates into it so I don't forget or double book.

There are ways to avoid and remedy a forgetful nature. There are ways to ensure that important things aren't forgotten. Refusing to engage in those things which will help is what tips accidental forgetful behaviour into something very selfish.

It depends on the situation. I wouldn't care if someone forgot my birthday, but I'd be raging if I called an emergency vet out and they'd forgot basic kit.
I have zero patience or understanding for colleagues simply forgetting tasks if there are any negative consequences for anyone else/ the company. But I'll cheerfully shrug off others catastrophic fuck ups when they're not down to a lack of thought/ effort.

I have adhd too, so I do know how easy it is to forget etc, I know the effort I have to put in to avoid it. I don't actually ever permanently forget things, if anything I generally remember every tiny detail of everything because I don't filter. Just not always at the right time if I don't actively try! I'm not always successful for minor things or those that only impact me, but I tend to think that if I can manage it for others then there's no excuse for nt people.

I KNOW my memory is bad. It’s not really forgetfulness as such but I get engrossed in tasks and ‘forget’ the time or that I have an appointment or even forget to eat tbh. Or I’ll get distracted by anything. If I am alone I manage just fine with my phone and daily reminders to take my meds etc and my diary to go to appointments. But throw other people in and their daily wittering it’s a shitshow for me and being able to remember anything. Noise makes it worse for me.

I’m pretty tolerant of most ‘forgetfulness’ like buying loo roll or milk. I’m always forgetting myself and just make do though online deliveries are a god send for this.

But I do get irate when people forget events that happen the same time every year. If I’m that important to you then yes, you can remember my birthday just like you remember Jesus’ birthday and you don’t even give a frig about him. I am terrible for remembering birthdays of people I’m not bothered about but if I care I do remember.

It takes me a lot of effort to remember things and I can forget where I’ve put things minutes after I put them down. It infuriates me no end but drs just say it’s stress. Guess I’ve been perma stressed for 2 decades 🤷🏻‍♀️

I do use tools, but the problem with ADHD is that it makes the tools less effective as I am liable to lose a list/note or forget to transfer it somewhere more visible/relevant or I write it somewhere and then forget to look at the list. Or I see the reminder, am reminded and then minutes later I've forgotten again before I have had a chance to act on it. Or I remember, go to act on something and something interrupts me and then the original task is just lost/gone. It's not a case of caring/trying, it can be something that I care about very much but if it's gone, it's gone. There are multiple points at which it fails and several times I've used a tool, forgotten, remembered in time, used a different tool and forgotten again.

I actually remember almost everything in tiny detail like a PP said, it's the recall which is a problem - recall only happens when something linked comes up. I would definitely forget Jesus' birthday if there wasn't a month of hype leading up to it constantly reiterating the date - I never remember when the bank holidays are. Friends' birthdays I can generally get the month, especially if I knew them in childhood where birthdays are a bigger thing.

I am better than I used to be, because I've streamlined what tools I use and which I know are useless for me, but still forget more than the average person, which is frustrating.

I am just curious because it really does come across sometimes like NT people have a lot more control over what they do/don't remember, but I have trouble believing it can be that simple. I've asked DH how he remembers things but his explanation wasn't very satisfying!

Completely agree about birthdays. I'm very good at remembering the dates of peoples birthdays but the day itself can come and go and my brain won't make the link.
What you describe sounds difficult. You can only do what you can do and not worry about the rest. I know I can do whatever is needed to counter my forgetfulness and disorganisation and when I don't it's immaturity iyswim. If you genuinely can't, you can't.

People don't forget the things that are important to them. So whilst it's true they (probably) didn't forget deliberately, they are telling you you're not important if they forget a birthday, an arrangement they made with you or forget to do something they told you they would.

That's not to say I don't do it. I know when our anniversary is but sometimes it gets to lunchtime on the day before I realise what the date is However, it's not something that's important to us. I think if I knew it was important to DH I'd remember. I never have the same issue with my Mum's birthday, for example.

Can I ask if you have a job and what tools you use to remember things at work, OP? Because if you look at the comments, this seems to play a very big part. I mean, let’s see:

• @StealthPolarBear mentions having to remember because forgetting at work would cost her job, so she has developed techniques and the stakes are very high
• @TrainspottingWelsh says she has ADHD herself and has zero patience or understanding for people forgetting when there are negative consequences that affect others and the company
• @Ohalrightthen points out that she feels it’s genuinely disrespectful that she has to clean up for people who “just forgot” important things at work, when there are millions of tools and apps to mitigate this

And several others have pointed out, and this is an argument that comes up in many marriages: if your memory is good enough to remember everything for work, OR come up with tools to remember everything for work, why can’t those same tools ensure you remember birthdays, anniversaries, to pick up the kids from nursery, etc? @flaviaritt said, “You do what you care about,” and you’re going to get a lot of comments that are some variation of that. You use coping strategies, apps, tools, etc, to remember what’s important.

@BertieBotts you sound so like me, though I haven't sought diagnosis (yet). It's taken 40 odd years and a lot of trial and error to get enough order into my life to enable me to get key things done. I use products designed for dementia patients for some things (e.g. taking medication).

The problem is that general day-to-day living requires so much concentration and the use of so many strategies that things do fall by the wayside - especially new things that haven't yet become embedded in the routines I so badly need.

It's not deliberate - I'm just often massively overwhelmed by what everyone else seems to find completely natural.

Most of the time, if it’s occasional, people will make some sort of change to combat it happening again. Eg forget mum and dad’s anniversary (this is true) get a iPhone and add a reoccurring annual event and reminder (also true).

If it’s habitual, then it is the person’s responsibility to come up with systems to help themselves eg setting alarm reminders, using notes on phone.

NT people have systems to help organise themselves and do not rely on their memory.

They may not need to be so intentional in setting the system up because they naturally do it. As someone with ADHD you can get to the same place as a NT but you have to be intentional about minimising your weaknesses with concrete action.

Eg time management a problem - set an alarm to go off to remind you (to do whatever) and do it every time whether you need it or not so you build the habit.

OP we struggle with similar things and I’m NT 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’m organised as long as no one touches my things - my desk specifically even though it looks like chaos. It’s when others interfere that it falls apart for me.

I find for me having the daily alarms on my phone helps set up a routine for me. I have one to wake up then 30 mins later for meds then another 30 mins to get DC to school. It’s just and audio prompt for me now because the routine is almost second nature. I still use them at weekends too. It’s taken me a long long time to build that habit but you still get someone interfering and it’s thrown off completely and I forget stuff. No method is foolproof. It has helped with setting up the day so I do what I need to get done without making a big cockup.

I know general month bank holidays fall but rely on my paper diary to be my reminder. I once sent DC to school on. Bank holiday

We really don’t have control over what we forget. I forget my age and what I’m turning next birthday sometimes and I’m mid 30s you’d think This would be something I’d know for certain 😬

I forget obvious spellings for words and write them phonetically until it pops back into my head what’s right. Names is another thing in struggle to recall. Play me a song and I’ll know the words to the song but couldn’t tell you the band instantly yet can see their faces or the album cover in my mind yet the name, it’ll be there sometimes an hour later when I’m doing something else.

At uni I used to record voice notes because I’d often forget the note I was writing half way through 😆 I probably should try doing it again with my phone.

It just is what it is and I find work arounds for everything.

I clicked 'YABU' because I think it isn't a question of intention, but obviously I don't mean I think that it's unreasonable or bad to forget things.

I think that one big reason people get annoyed about 'forgetting' is that it's so abused as a justification for being unpleasant. I am not sure that the important, well-paid career man who 'forgets' his SAHM wife's birthday is actually being totally truthful. I'm pretty sure he could have remembered it if he chose.

I think we'd all much more tolerant of ordinary forgetting if it weren't so often the excuse for that kind of behaviour. But it's like everything else. A woman in a low-paid job/not very well respected context, and we say she's ditzy or silly or lazy to forget. An important man in a big job? Oh, he's far too busy to remember things!

Oh, but to be more specific: I used to have a near-perfect memory. I never took notes and I could always remember exactly where information was located in my textbooks. I never wrote anything down. It lasted perfectly until my DD was born, and then sleep deprivation turned me into a total flake. I definitely don't mean to forget things, but I just do! I do relate to the feeling of panic when you meant to remember a thing and suddenly realise you didn't. I don't know what the answer is, though.

I’m autistic which affects my executive function and causes me to be naturally disorganised and forgetful. However, because of this, I work harder than most people to get some control over my lie and uses whatever tools I can to help me remember. Notes, alarms etc. I know you’ve explained the difficulties you have with these systems and I can relate. I am not saying that I don’t sometimes forget things but it is pretty uncommon now and usually because I didn’t make use my tools/ strategies correctly. I don’t see autism or ADHD for an excuse but more something for us to work around. I don’t think there is any excuse for not making the effort to remember and improve yourself. I also know plenty of NTs who struggle with these sorts of things, so whilst I do think it is more problematic for people like us, I don’t think it is solely to do with ADHD etc.

Me too, @LionessRoar. I have autism, and I make myself very vigilant when it comes to remembering things (even if it's remembering to do them at the last minute!)

I say to DH: "Please can you get some potatoes, don't buy Maris Piper though, as they weren't very nice last time."

"Ok" he says. Some time later he returns with Maris Piper potatoes because despite giving every appearance of actually listening, what he heard was this: "blah blah blah...... get some potatoes...... blah blah blah.... Maris Piper.... Blah blah blah".

So I reckon that at least half the time, the person who has forgotten something was never really paying attention in the first place to what was agreed.

I've always had a poor memory, so I acknowledge that, 'owned it' if you like and worked damned hard to come up with strategies that help me. I've been an adult a lot longer than we've had mobile phones and calendar reminders and apps and personal computers to help us to.
Most of my adult life, I've been considered 'really organised' by people that know me. That has come about because of the fact I've had to get things organised in order to not forget things, not because I was somehow born organised.
So yes, things like forgetting birthdays of people who are really close to you does say - to me - that that person isn't important enough to me to set up a system whereby I will be prompted just before their birthday. Same with forgetting appointments or arrangements