to think that forgetting is accidental/unintentional?

[BertieBotts]

And therefore, is not something to see as immoral or feckless?

As in, if somebody forgets something, they didn't purposefully do this. You can't choose what you forget or not, it's just something that happens.

Like accidents, there is a degree of responsibility in that you can take steps to make something less likely to be forgotten e.g. writing a note, setting a phone reminder.

But most of the time it's not the person's fault, it's just something unintentional, and therefore you shouldn't get angry with somebody for forgetting something.

If I am NBU, why do people get so angry about forgotten things/events/tasks? Are they oversubscribing to the idea that it's possible to take responsibility? Or do they assume it's an excuse ie the person just couldn't be bothered to do the thing and lied and said they forgot?

Or can most people choose to remember certain things, and so the act of forgetting means that you didn't make this choice and is therefore an actual marker that you don't care about the thing?

(Full disclaimer, I have ADHD and I am wondering how NT people's brains work.)

It's about whether you cared enough to make sure you remember.

I'm autistic, my memory and organisation are shit.
My solution is that every birthday is in my calendar and I check this regularly for birthday coming in the next couple of months. I set frequent alarms, I.e every 2 minutes if I need to do something shortly so if I get distracted I get reminded. I also write on my hands and arms. And i do things as soon as I know about them, rather than when it needs doing by. I plan birthdays a month in advance, if I forget in that time I already have the present, just have to drop it off. All my Christmas presents are bought and wrapped and I've arranged when all are getting dropped off.
I start getting ready for an event days in advance, and I aim to arrive everywhere an hour early.

Therefore, despite finding it incredibly difficult and very stressful, I rarely forget birthdays or am late, because i care enough to make sure i dont. If someone frequently forgets important things or is late, no matter what challenge they have, it's simply that they dont care enough to make sure they remember or are on time.

@BertieBotts

You have skills that FAR surpass a perfect memory! Though I'm surprised you are forgetful.

I'd forgive you!!

I'm not sure if I'm NT or undiagnosed ADHD (online tests always seem borderline).

I'm definitely foggy brained. It started during a fairly traumatic period in my life & has got much worse since peri menopause.

I don't forget birthdays/what time I'm
picking up the children or stuff like that, but I'll think 'I need to order xyz' & completely forget to do it. Repeatedly.

The worst though is the fog. I really struggle to work through problems, long articles and I can't retain information like I used to AT ALL

If you were my RL friend I wouldn't care if you forgot my birthday etc & if we had plans I'd be happy to call you and ask 'if we were still having lunch together' (or whatever).

Forgetting is by definition not intentional because you can't purposely remove information from your head.

However you are more likely to forget something if it isn't really very important to you, if you weren't paying attention when you heard it or if you don't take sensible steps to remember it like writing it down. And those things can be intentional.

It depends. 'I forgot' often means 'it wasn't very important to me'. I've had this row with DH coming back from the shops with the wrong stuff, missing things - never the things he wanted. In that example it comes across as 'it wasn't very important to me'. Equally when family members forget your birthday.

'I forgot' when it's an unusual or one off event such as the dentist, I can understand that more.

Basically, most people have to make an effort to remember things, like keep a diary or write lists. It depends how important it is to them to remember things.

I have no diagnosis but I've wondered about ADHD/ASD especially since joining mumsnet and realising that I nod along with a lot of the posters who identify themselves as having one or the other.
I've been forgetful since childhood, it used to be a joke that when I was sent to fetch something the sender should wait five minutes then shout after me to remind me what I'd been sent for.
I was on first name terms as a teenager with the people in the bus company lost and found I was in for my schoolbag/PE kit/ coat so often.
Yet I was hurt when friends forgot arrangements to meet up, because those kinds of things I would remember.
So I would forget my belongings, tasks I needed to do for myself, study, work, but I always remembered things with other people and thought that if they didn't that meant I didn't matter to them.
Then I had chemo and lost even that bit of memory.
I've found the only way to combat this is to act immediately.
Before I would think must remember to ring such and such tomorrow at a convenient time. Now if I think of them I ring/text immediately. Because I know I won't remember.
Same with tasks, need to buy toilet paper put it on online shopping there and then.
I've put the bins out at 6pm for the following morning because I think of it and can't trust myself to do it later.
I know it's very tiring, always feeling there is something at the edge of your mind if you could just get it.
But we just have to get on with it, use your phone reminders, notebook with lists, (bits of paper are a disaster) designate a place for everything and be strict with yourself putting things back so you know where everything can be found and create as much routine in your life as possible.
Good luck!

I think YANBU. But I also have ADHD!

I have someone in my life like this and starting to wonder if she has ADHD. She is a high performing business woman but is a terrible organiser and planner.
Examples of things she will forget to do-

1. Write back to someone who urgently needs a response.
2. Arrange their childcare (Often done at the last minute)
3. Text someone back
4. Owe someone money

Yet they never seem to get into trouble at work for it as far as I know. I only know that it doesn't just happen to me and so I try not to take it too personally. I do wonder if something like ADHD is involved though?

Are people actually voting? I can't see any results! I just assumed nobody had until I saw Sarah's comment! (What's the score? :o)

Chemo/radiology can cause acquired ADHD - I know someone that happened to on one of the support groups I'm on. Unfortunately it tends to mean it's not very responsive to medication apparently, but it wouldn't do any harm to look it up and find out.

Witches :) Thank you.

Window that sounds very familiar. I have a weekday pill box too!

I do have a job and I do forget things there, but I think that's mainly because I've not long started and I'm also working in a language I'm not fluent in, so all the new things I need to remember plus all the new vocab I'm picking up are all jostling for space with the everyday stuff like which tasks I've started and got interrupted in.

In my last job (teaching adults) I would forget folders or documents, or have ideas during one class that I'd forget to implement before the next class - I tend to be good at winging it or improvising on my feet when this happens, but if I'm honest it means I'm not working to the best of my potential or ability. Very occasionally I mix up the times or days I'm supposed to be working but I'm talking about once every couple of years. Which I appreciate is still more often than most people do that. It's also tended to happen when I was in jobs with an irregular work schedule.

I know the popular misconception is we have brains like sieves, hence forgetting stuff, but imo it's those without adhd that have sieve- like brains. They take in information and drain the excess/ irrelevant parts, leaving just the necessities in the sieve. Of course, some nt people have sieves with giant holes in and forget things more often/ easily than those with smaller holes in their sieve. And most of the tools for managing such as phone alerts etc are based on the idea we just need to reduce the size of the holes in our brain sieves.

However, with adhd we don't even have a sieve, just a massive bowl with a mix of everything. The tool you need is a spoon, at which point the nt tools such as lists etc can be handy to transform the spoon into a more efficient slotted spoon. But they're not particularly useful if you're using them to plug holes in a sieve that doesn't exist.

What you need is to find your spoon. For me, that's habit, routine and organisation. Eg when I get in from work, I leave my bag out until I have put in anything I need to take the next day, only then does it go in its place. I use a traditional wall planner, so I can see what I have on for the day/ week/ month, whether that's an appointment, buying and posting a card or renewing the car insurance. The none routine stuff is obviously hardest because it can't become a subconscious habit, but you can usually find something to mark it out as one.

I get the impression you've tried your upmost to use all those nt tools available for making sieves smaller, but all some are doing are adding yet more ingredients to the mixing bowl. Eg phone alarms because they aren't always helping you at present, so they're just adding more to do. And as you know, we can't even filter what goes into the bowl to start with, so we've already got more ingredients to sift through than the nt person initially tipped into their sieve. Unfortunately nobody supplies spoons so you have to make it yourself, and then figure out which tools make the best slots in it for you.

And I apologise if none of that makes sense, it did in my head

Why do we love metaphors so much? :o Thanks Welsh, that really does make perfect sense.

I will decamp to the ADHD support thread now :)

I am forgetful, and it's not a problem for me or anyone when it's just me forgetting about inconsequential things.

I write down important things or record them on my phone because there is responsibility in that and forgetting them is not an acceptable excuse

Because without them we'd all be trying to verbalise two dozen concurrent trains of thought, all on completely different subjects and all branching off to a dozen different tangents