Solicitors conspire to drag out conveyancing

[SweetCruciferous]

AIBU to think solicitors deliberately eke out every step of the conveyancing process as a deliberate ploy to justify disproportionate fees for simple boilerplate admin tasks amounting to no more than a couple of days’ work?

This is my suspicion. Can anyone confirm this? Any heretic solicitors? AIBU?

You’re welcome 😊

@SweetCruciferous

Thanks *@MrsVoog* that’s a great insight!

You’re welcome 😊

Minecraft Mother said what i wanted to say a very great deal more graciously.

And please please do not get your mum or your dad to start e-amiling your lawyer on your behalf. We can;'t talk to them. And if you are in your late 30s it's just not a good look.

[looking at 38 year old client whose mum wrote me the letter she wanted me to write to her ex DIL and told me to 'just put it on the letterhead'. ]

For the record, and because so many of the replies are just “you get what you pay for” –

we are paying close to double the £500 suggested by @MinecraftMother and @CheshireDing and we’re in a regional area in the north

@crystal1983

My solicitor exchanged without telling me, and after we had exchanged without my knowledge, she told me she had also agreed a new completion date without telling me.

I found this out at 8am two days before the newly agreed completion date. I wasn’t happy.

I got some money back from them. It was a terrible first experience with conveyancing solicitors. I’m sure not all are like this.

That is outrageous and I would lose my absolute shit.

We call clients before exchanging every single time. More often than not they are like "yes, as I told you yesterday I want to exchange with completion set for blah" and I think well, bitch, if I exchanged on your say so from yday and you lost your job overnight then you'd be fucking happy I asked...

@SweetCruciferous

For the record, and because so many of the replies are just “you get what you pay for” –

we are paying close to double the £500 suggested by @MinecraftMother and @CheshireDing and we’re in a regional area in the north

How much are you selling for or buying, on phone can't see quote.

If it's a more expensive house then it'll cost more because the risk is higher. As I had to explain to a client buying a £1.7m house last month.
Why wasn't my
Fee £500 like the last house in Hull
I'd SOLD for him
Last year.

Actually I agree with the OP that the service is generally shocking and I’m talking about ‘proper’ solicitors charging ££££ not conveyancing factories. I’ve not bought or sold a house for a while but it was always thus, and now DD is currently selling and buying literally nothing has changed. They do nothing until you ring them to chase, then they do one thing and put the file back in the tray until you chase them again. They get away with it because they’re all the same. It shouldn’t take 5 months to sell and buy a perfectly normal modern freehold property with no unusual features, and yet it does.

Of it wasn't for Tesco law, we could go back to charging by the hour or a percentage of the house value, £1200 at the least per transaction...that would be better for all of us. Except clients where it's a race for the bottom and you end up with PPL... (if you know, you know 😉).

We bought our house for cash. We didn't have a place to sell and the owner of the house we bought had died so no chain at all.

I used to be a legal secretary and worked for a number of years in conveyancing. I know it is possible for it to take as little as 6 weeks from start to finish if it is very straightforward although 8 to 12 weeks is probably more likely.

Also the majority of my working as a legal secretary was before computers, internet etc so it should be quicker now.

Anyway it took almost 6 months!

@MyPersona

Actually I agree with the OP that the service is generally shocking and I’m talking about ‘proper’ solicitors charging ££££ not conveyancing factories. I’ve not bought or sold a house for a while but it was always thus, and now DD is currently selling and buying literally nothing has changed. They do nothing until you ring them to chase, then they do one thing and put the file back in the tray until you chase them again. They get away with it because they’re all the same. It shouldn’t take 5 months to sell and buy a perfectly normal modern freehold property with no unusual features, and yet it does.

But but but how do you know it's perfectly normal.

Lots are. But lots come to me and there's a weird easement or a missing easement or a missing deed or a weird path or a weird boundary...which gets sorted by me. Then presented to the client in my report where I tell them what I've done to make it right. I am sure keeping people informed throughout makes everything run smoothly, but updating agents or explaining to clients what I'm doing when I'm going to be doing that in great detail in my report is just inefficient. I'll just get on with the work and get it to the point of report - that's when the majority of my work is through.

You know what I fucking hate more than anything (you've got me started now) being told "it's brand new, so should be easy" when dealing with new builds...-and a beautiful transaction being fucked at the end when dealing with the chain's date demands. It's like herding cats. I am not a ducking PA for 12 people...the agents can speak with all parties and sort a date but once we are at this point we actually want them to earn their massive fee and we rarely hear a peep. So much time spent trying to figure out what date Gladys and Dave at the top of a 4 man chain can manage because they only use Britannia removals...

and can I just put in another plea.... if your solicitor says they need something from you for compliance, can you just please provide it?

I have sent 4 e-mails and made 3 phone calls to a client asking for 3 months worth of bank statements for a legal aid application. She has not provided it. (Then provided 2019 statements). I cannot do what I need to do without it. Then on Monday said she would complain about how long i am taking. THEN saoid she had provided the docs to a mediator. Fine- but I am not the mediator. I am the solicitor. i need it to.

Please- we are not asking for this crap because we are nosy. We are asking because we cannot progress matters without it.

@MinecraftMother yeah it’s not an expensive house – definitely other end of the market.

Not bothered by the fees themselves more just the implication that any rubbish performance is my fault because I must be a cheapskate.

This thread has provided some insight into what individual solicitors might be up against and your workload @minecraft is absolutely crazy.

I have been one of those phone and email chasers myself, however this has only been because of the solicitor communicating (voluntarily) a specific time frame (I will have that over with you today) which I then communicate to others, then a week later having heard nothing back. So it just creates a lot of uncertainty. Whereas if they’d said ‘allow two weeks’ they’d have set a clear and realistic expectation and I’d happily have left them to it.

I managed to turn one around in 5 days once, from receipt of contract papers. Known client, cash (all AMLd) and simple freehold without issues.

Not conveyancing solicitors, they usually charge a fixed fee.

Barristers on the other hand seem to charge for EVERYTHING.

[quote SweetCruciferous]@MinecraftMother yeah it’s not an expensive house – definitely other end of the market.

Not bothered by the fees themselves more just the implication that any rubbish performance is my fault because I must be a cheapskate.

This thread has provided some insight into what individual solicitors might be up against and your workload @minecraft is absolutely crazy.

I have been one of those phone and email chasers myself, however this has only been because of the solicitor communicating (voluntarily) a specific time frame (I will have that over with you today) which I then communicate to others, then a week later having heard nothing back. So it just creates a lot of uncertainty. Whereas if they’d said ‘allow two weeks’ they’d have set a clear and realistic expectation and I’d happily have left them to it.[/quote]
There is a complaints procedure in place at your firm.

My first step would be emailing the managing partner and letting them know you're not happy and want someone else to take over the file and get it completed by such a date or you'll raise a formal complaint.

Trust me. They'll want to just deal with it. Complaints - even those without any merit whatsoever - are onerous and time consuming.

I suspect those saying that keeping the clients informed is too time consuming may be making false economy.
Let the client know you will email every fortnight with progress
Just give a short indication of the status,,,waiting for x, processing y. Writing a full report for you.

It probably would take a lot of disruptive calls out of the system and give a much better impression /reassurance that something is being done,

@MinecraftMother

Can see how frustrating it must be being chased for updates which then slow you down (I must admit I had assumed a solicitors would employ admin staff to handle time straightforward queries and I’ve tended to email the general address rather than my solicitor directly)

From my point of view as a buyer, we’ve entered into the process without any real overview or signposting of what to expect and when, or what each step actually entails. (As an example, the searches – I‘ve found out a whole lot more in this thread).

I wonder if comprehensive information at the outset, like a standard info pack explaining what’s involved for the solicitor and setting clear expectations, wouldn’t head some of the unnecessary badgering off at the pass.

I came on to say everything @MinecraftMother said, but couldn't have done it so eloquently!

The "it's really straightforward" drives me insane. Tell you what Mr Jones, you scrutinise this lease yourself then will you (oh and don't forget to report to the lender about the unacceptable ground rent terms, and ask the seller's solicitor to ask the landlord for a Deed of Variation... etc etc while you're at it!)

Believe us, if we could get every file finished in 6 weeks we would, I want you off my desk! but I have professional responsibilities to actually check out what you're buying and make sure it's all OK and you won't sue me in 5 years time.

Also, the number of clients who take ages to return their initial paperwork/ID/AML documents etc. is ridiculous, and then we're criticised for speed?! And don't get me started on agents who cannot fathom that some transactions are more complicated than others, and will therefore take longer to get their (insanely large) fees.

And yep, stack of files and laptop are sat at the end of my sofa ready for another weekend of unpaid overtime 👍🏻

@midgebabe

I suspect those saying that keeping the clients informed is too time consuming may be making false economy. Let the client know you will email every fortnight with progress Just give a short indication of the status,,,waiting for x, processing y. Writing a full report for you.

It probably would take a lot of disruptive calls out of the system and give a much better impression /reassurance that something is being done,

Yes there's truth in that, but it doesn't help for situations like this - a tidal wave of instructions.

OP - in my case, we do that. I designed a timeline for what comes next sent out with my outset letters, but clients simply don't read
This chart, despite me taking a whole Sunday designing it 😆

@midgebabe

I suspect those saying that keeping the clients informed is too time consuming may be making false economy. Let the client know you will email every fortnight with progress Just give a short indication of the status,,,waiting for x, processing y. Writing a full report for you.

It probably would take a lot of disruptive calls out of the system and give a much better impression /reassurance that something is being done,

but if you have 150 clients then e-mailing them once a fortnight is going to take up alot of time.

i tend to contact clients when i have done something or they need to do something. So I will e-mail a client a court order and a cafcass report or when we need to arrange a time to write a witness statement. But I am not going to update them once a fortnight if there is nothing to say.

Not sure what they do in England but in Scotland, no. Not anywhere I have practised. You get a quote for a basic conveyancing transaction whether that takes 2 months or 2 years (new build houses, etc). If other work is required to fix the title or whatnot then yes, it costs more as it is above and beyond what was quoted for.

Cross post - @SweetCruciferous I have one of those info sheets that sets out the steps of the whole process, it goes out with the initial terms and conditions. 90% of clients don't seem to bother reading them though

Oh and yes- coming into christmas. The number of clients who ask for us to act as a postbox go between for xmas presents between estranged parents. The peopke who say 'but can;t you just....?0 No, we cannot act as a postbox for christmas presents. We have too many clients. so maybe we cannot e-mail a simple and short update every 2 weeks.

It would be good if we could. But we can't. (also looking at my files on my sofa).

I am going to stop now. I was roundly abused yesterday by the other side in a divorce and I am at seriously low ebb right now. Covid has been utter hell for the legal profession. But we are just meant to take the flak and the shit and the abuse. I am knackered and over it.