Foreign Aid budget cut

[MellowBird85]

Do you agree with it?

YANBU - Yes it was the right decision to cut it.
YABU - No they should’ve left it alone.

I’m interested about the huge investments China has made in Africa. Is it a good thing especially considering China’s poor human rights record or is it colonialism?

Analysis from the World Bank suggests that China has actually favoured investment in countries with what they call "weak governance environments" whereas Western governments tend to promote financial aid to countries with strong governance. So theoretically, the Western approach is more "colonial" in terms of trying to influence the political structure of African nations that they invest in. However, this is likely because they don't want to see foreign aid being used to further the wealth of corrupt governments rather than being used where needed. It's not really colonialism, but it is an attempt to influence things politically. I think most people in this country in favour of foreign aid would want to see it spent fairly to benefit all rather than to be used by corrupt politicians for their personal gain. It's still a means of political influence though, hence what I said upthread about it being a form of "soft" power.

The Chinese don't seem to make any conditions for good governance on their investment. Overall though, Chinese investment has had a positive effect on economic growth in Africa, although obviously with an eye to their own interests. The Chinese government has the advantage of course of knowing that they will be in power indefinitely so they make very long-term plans.

Here is a summary of some of the major Chinese infrastructure projects in Africa:
www.thebusinessyear.com/top-5-china-infrastructure-projects-in-africa-2020/focus

Why is this the UK job? What about the woman in this country trapped in a violent house because there is no where else to go?

Well, there's no need for it to be an either/or.

I assumed it was a mix of soft power and relief aid - I know we were the third biggest contributor to the WHO but not sure if that from this budget - so had a quick look to where it was going -and saw this:

But recent reports have unearthed issues with foreign aid spending. For example, a study by three economists published in February found that billions of pounds of aid allocated to the most in-need nations ends up in tax havens.

The study, Elite Capture of Foreign Aid, tracked the flow of aid money to 22 nations, finding that as much as a sixth ended up in tax havens like Switzerland.

www.theweek.co.uk/63394/foreign-aid-how-and-where-is-britains-budget-spent
That all aid I think not just this budget - but that is quite shocking to me.

We also seem to be giving a fair bit.

Since 1970, the UN has set a target for donor countries to contribute 0.7% of their GDP on foreign aid.
...
Figures from 2017 show that Britain was the only member of the G7 to meet the 0.7% target, according to statistics published by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

“The only donors more generous than Britain by proportion of their economies are Sweden (1.01%), Luxembourg (1%), Norway (0.99%) and Denmark (0.72%),” The Times reported in 2018. The non-Western countries that exceeded the UN target were the United Arab Emirates and Turkey, it adds.

So I'm not sure it is such a bad thing to cut as it first appears.

Most people don't understand what foreign aid is for.

Most people have a very simplistic idea that it's an entirely altruistic thing and that money goes towards starving children and building wells, questioning why we give it to nations such as India, which has a space programme. "Charity begins at home" and all that.

It is not a gesture of goodwill.

It greases the wheels of international trade and co-operation. As a not-entirely hypothetical example, we give India money / goods / services and in return India gives our hospitals and businesses access to their graduates and trained staff. So we get doctors.

We give X country military support, and they give UK businesses access to their natural resources or produce. So we can stock Tesco with certain fruit.

We contribute towards X country's infrastructure improvements and in return they'll let British airlines land there so we can go on holiday.

Cutting foreign aid is an easy, populist stance to take, but it has much wider implications for the UK economy beyond saving money.

@Lockheart

Most people don't understand what foreign aid is for.

Most people have a very simplistic idea that it's an entirely altruistic thing and that money goes towards starving children and building wells, questioning why we give it to nations such as India, which has a space programme. "Charity begins at home" and all that.

It is not a gesture of goodwill.

It greases the wheels of international trade and co-operation. As a not-entirely hypothetical example, we give India money / goods / services and in return India gives our hospitals and businesses access to their graduates and trained staff. So we get doctors.

We give X country military support, and they give UK businesses access to their natural resources or produce. So we can stock Tesco with certain fruit.

We contribute towards X country's infrastructure improvements and in return they'll let British airlines land there so we can go on holiday.

Cutting foreign aid is an easy, populist stance to take, but it has much wider implications for the UK economy beyond saving money.

It's also delivered by means of research which benefits the UK massively (shared knowledge/relationship building/peacekeeping) as well as having the aim of improving things for the poorest and most vulnerable in LMICs.

@RainbowParadise indeed! I was going for the more simplistic and obvious examples for the purposes of this thread.

@Lockheart I do find it sad that we have to bring it back to what the UK gets from it to get idiots to accept the idea of aid.

To me it's the measure of how humane a country is- the things that it will do to help the poorest and most vulnerable.

Let's not forget the role the UK has had in making a fucking mess all over the world, plundering and de-stabilising so many countries. For that alone we should be taking some responsibility.

Should never have been cut, Britain as well as other western nations plundered the wealth of other nations i.e. India, and African countries, foreign aid budget should be taken as reparations for colonialism and its ongoing affects.

@MullinerSpec

Should never have been cut, Britain as well as other western nations plundered the wealth of other nations i.e. India, and African countries, foreign aid budget should be taken as reparations for colonialism and its ongoing affects.

@MullinerSpec couldn't agree more.

As much as it sucks, I've thought we should cut this for years. We don't look after our own people well enough. Shite systems that benefit the rich and no one else, the amount of people homeless increasing and is only going to get worse because of covid, our own infrastructure needs a serious rethink (especially in scotland where the only priority seems to be build more houses, but fuck all else, I'm guessing other areas are just the same).

Once we have our own country back on track and working properly, then we can do foreign aid again. But to benefit space programs and shit over homeless? Nope.

@MullinerSpec

Should never have been cut, Britain as well as other western nations plundered the wealth of other nations i.e. India, and African countries, foreign aid budget should be taken as reparations for colonialism and its ongoing affects.

But for how long, we've allowed a fair amount of immigration from those former colonies as well

@CakeRequired

As much as it sucks, I've thought we should cut this for years. We don't look after our own people well enough. Shite systems that benefit the rich and no one else, the amount of people homeless increasing and is only going to get worse because of covid, our own infrastructure needs a serious rethink (especially in scotland where the only priority seems to be build more houses, but fuck all else, I'm guessing other areas are just the same).

Once we have our own country back on track and working properly, then we can do foreign aid again. But to benefit space programs and shit over homeless? Nope.

Well you've answered it yourself haven't you? Sort out the shit systems that benefit only the rich. It's not a choice of getting rid of poverty in the UK or helping the world's poorest or most vulnerable. It's a political choice that there are so many people struggling in the UK and it's a fucking disgrace.

You realise the government piss plenty of money up the wall in this country? PPE, test and trace, wow that was good value for money wasn't it!

I personally think it's repugnant that my in laws who retired in their 50s, live in a house worth 700k and go on multiple expensive holidays a year receive £200 winter fuel allowance. Maybe question the reasons why there are so many poor people in this country. The tories like to keep their voters sweet, there's a clue perhaps.

It really isn't a choice between here and helping the poorest of the world, it just isn't.

Serendipity and Marjory - thank you for answering my question.

Absolutely the right thing. We have so many people struggling, people homeless etc. Charity begins at home. Sorting universal credit out should be a priority. , not giving to other countries, some of whom don’t even want it.

@winterberries77

Absolutely the right thing. We have so many people struggling, people homeless etc. Charity begins at home. Sorting universal credit out should be a priority. , not giving to other countries, some of whom don’t even want it.

It will not help them though

I think the government could put 100% of GDP into our education system in the UK and it would still be a country full of fucking idiots incapable of compassion for others and incapable of understanding why it is rightly our responsibility to help the poorest and most vulnerable of ALL societies.

Honestly I don't get why people don't get this.

Cutting foreign aid is bad for our economy.
Therefore bad for us.

Pure Populism with all the bad that it brings.

Yes should be cut completely. We have children falling below the poverty line in this country think we need to deal with what's on our own doorstep first.

RainbowParadise

Yep all been fed on a diet of populism.

It makes me want ymto bang my head on a wall. This will make things worse for us too.

A lot of these countries we help despise the uk...pretty sure we would be the last to be helped if the shoe was on the other foot. And why are these countries still in such dire states after the Money they continue to receive. Its like throwing money in to a bottomless pit.

@Ilovegreentomatoes I'm going to repost my original comment on this thread below for your reference, but I would also point out that the government had to be publically shamed into feeding schoolchildren over the holidays. Are you really so naive that you think cutting foreign aid will mean our poverty is addressed?

Most people don't understand what foreign aid is for.

Most people have a very simplistic idea that it's an entirely altruistic thing and that money goes towards starving children and building wells, questioning why we give it to nations such as India, which has a space programme. "Charity begins at home" and all that.

It is not a gesture of goodwill.

It greases the wheels of international trade and co-operation. As a not-entirely hypothetical example, we give India money / goods / services and in return India gives our hospitals and businesses access to their graduates and trained staff. So we get doctors.

We give X country military support, and they give UK businesses access to their natural resources or produce. So we can stock Tesco with certain fruit.

We contribute towards X country's infrastructure improvements and in return they'll let British airlines land there so we can go on holiday.

Cutting foreign aid is an easy, populist stance to take, but it has much wider implications for the UK economy beyond saving money.

France are increasing their aid. They have a ministry of commerce and foreign aid. They get it.

Its about economic investment and developing markets. We've done ourselves over on brexit and now this too.
If you can't do the compassion argument at least look at the economics.

What about the woman in this country trapped in a violent house because there is no where else to go?

For those saying, basically "Charity begins at home" the 4 billion saved from the foreign aid budget is pretty much the same as the increases to the defence budget.
It won't be going to domestic violence refuges or FSM etc etc.

Plus because GDP is so much lower, the amount for FA would have been cut regardless.

What i found most annoying about the announcements yesterday is that nothing is being done to tax the wealthiest, its all on the poorest to pick up the tab.

@RainbowParadise

Oh I know exactly where the blame lies. It's most definitely the fault of our shit government. But there's bugger all that's going to change if we keep voting the fuckers back in is there? They piss money away on ferry companies with no ferries, not taxing their buddies in companies, budgeting more money on defence, brexit etc. You could go on for hours on how much money those twats have wasted.

I keep saying on here that it's the politicians we should be blaming, not each other or the rest of the public sector, like others do on many other threads. But while they keep pissing money away on nothing decent for us, I'm glad they are reducing the amount of money going to other countries that will no doubt just be pissed away there too.

It's a disgrace that people live in poverty in this country and its a disgrace that people here think it's acceptable to abandon the poorest and most disadvantaged people, mainly children, in the world.

Do you have similar levels of vitriol for other advanced European counties whose foreign aid budgets that are the same 0.5% that the UK has just reduced its levels to?