Seller is 'taking' furniture despite my including it in offer letter?

[Rae34]

I have a worse than useless solicitor who I have spoken to just twice even though my date of entry is in 2 days. Really tearing my hair out here and have had no documents of any kind but anyway.

He has finally contacted me and said 'the seller is taking x pieces of furniture during the move, is that okay?'. This means I will now have nothing at all to sit in in the living room to start - these furniture pieces were included in the offer. What are my legal rights??

Passthebubbly Ive taken my nice lights and replaced them like your sellers did🤷🏻‍♀️. I loved them too!

@CaraDuneRedux

What country are you in, OP?

I've never heard of anyone wanting living room furniture in a house sale!

Fixtures and fittings, possibly some white goods... But a sofa? Seriously?

DS2 is taking all the furniture in his new flat because he doesn't have any and can't afford to buy it yet. What has the country to do with it? It's about how much money you do or don't have.

When we sold a flat in london we agreed to leave 2 beds, drawers & bedside tables. The buyer wanted them, we could see it wasnt worth us dismantling and moving them, we agreed it within the accepted price. We also left all white goods including dishwasher & washing machine. Buyer also wanted other furniture but it was things we wanted. It's not that uncommon.

i dont get why theyasked if it was ok if it was never in the contract

If the missives are concluded it should have said on them if anything was getting left. If it didn't I don't think there's much you can do unfortunately. You also wouldn't be able to negotiate a lower price as you are now legally bounded by the contract. Sorry what a shot situation. On the other hand if they were listed as being left then they will be technically stealing from you.

@Rae34

A proper legal firm believe it or not. They were actually recommended to me by a friend. I think I have just ended up with a dud solicitor.

Yes missives concluded.

If missives are concluded, why would your solicitor say that you have the option to walk away? That wouldn’t be possible.

It does sound as though you have got a terrible solicitor, not what you need when you are a first time buyer and not familiar with the process. But I’m surprised you haven’t had to sign anything so far. I appreciate they are trying to minimise in-person contact, but would have thought you would have had to sign some paperwork by now!

As a PP said, there should have been documents relating to the initial offer and then a few back and forth from both solicitors with qualifying acceptances before the final accepted offer. And you should have had sight off all of these documents.

We sold a flat (in Scotland, if it matters) along with all the furniture and white goods. The buyer was a man who'd been sleeping on a friend's sofa, and he was glad to get it. On our lawyer's advice we kept it separate from the sale of the flat (too late for you now, but it's one way of doing it).

Op, did the solicitor not go over the missives when you signed the standard security? Although with covid I'm not sure how meetings like this are taking place now.
If your solicitor has omitted the furniture from the missives and they've been concluded then the only thing you can do is to complain directly to the solicitor, probably best in writing.
Have you not seen a copy of the formal offer letter your solicitor would have submitted on your behalf to the sellers solicitor? This is what the missives are, amended versions of the original offer letter until all the points are agreed on.

Last house I bought was fully furnished, I didn't have any furniture and the guy who was selling had been letting it out and had nowhere to move the furniture to, so basically he just gave the stuff to me, as it saved him having to move it..

@ladylunchalot

Op, did the solicitor not go over the missives when you signed the standard security? Although with covid I'm not sure how meetings like this are taking place now. If your solicitor has omitted the furniture from the missives and they've been concluded then the only thing you can do is to complain directly to the solicitor, probably best in writing. Have you not seen a copy of the formal offer letter your solicitor would have submitted on your behalf to the sellers solicitor? This is what the missives are, amended versions of the original offer letter until all the points are agreed on.

This.

If you have concluded missives without furniture as a condition of the sale than you have agreed to purchase without that furniture and this should not be a surprise. But you also say you have had no documents which is surprising and confusing.

A lot rests on what you actually mean by the 'furniture was included in the offer' implying they formed part of the missives and whether the solicitor has indeed omitted to include in the contract, which you must surely have seen given the entry date.

It is entirely reasonable that the vendors, after the original offer presumably some time ago, are checking whether you want these items if they have not been itemised in the contract. (They have a responsibility to remove items not included in the sale for starters).

I am not sure anyone can add anything more useful with regard your 'rights' without understanding in detail your instructions and communications to the solicitor and any reference to the items. It sounds like you do indeed need to speak to your solicitor urgently but I fear they will point out this omission should have been noticed much earlier in the process (assuming from your comments that this has not been an extremely rushed purchase)

It is not unusual for informal arrangements to be made for moveables outside of the legal purchase process. Our vendors contacted us directly a few times asking if we wanted items x, y and z left behind to save them disposing of them. So unless it was made explicit to the solicitor, in writing, in your instructions, there may not be grounds for complaint.

Are you getting a mortgage? If so, changing the purchase price to account for the furniture being removed could invalidate the offer and the process might have to start again. I would definitely speak to the solicitor asap

If you had documentation of what was being left, then the seller MUST leave what was specified. You can sue her otherwise.

Sorry all I'm feeling really unwell tonight but these replies are helpful. I'll come back tomorrow - last day before entry date to complete all. I've had some copies of docs over tonight.

Sorry to hear the solicitor is that bad but at least you’ve got some paperwork for it all now. Good luck

If the solicitor has failed to comply with your instructions on furniture and has failed to provide you with paperwork to check that in suitable time, then deal with their practice manager and raise a formal complaint. Get the value of one 2nd hand chair knocked off your bill.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

When we sold a flat in london we agreed to leave 2 beds, drawers & bedside tables. The buyer wanted them, we could see it wasnt worth us dismantling and moving them, we agreed it within the accepted price. We also left all white goods including dishwasher & washing machine. Buyer also wanted other furniture but it was things we wanted. It's not that uncommon.

When my Mum sold her house, she was going to leave a gas fire; but the buyer was so obnoxious that she gave it to us as a point of principle! (It wasn't included in the sale)

If the solicitor cocked up then they can deduct a reasonable cost from their fees or be subject to an insurance PI claim. Hope you get it sorted out OP.

@sueelleker - I had similarly obnoxious buyers who dropped the price a couple of times for no valid reason; I didn't allow the second, but it was all needless hassle and poor behaviour on their part. They then took out the money for items they said they were buying originally as part of the quote, so I had my solicitor formally remove them from sale and gave the curtains, fridge, furniture and light fittings to old neighbours (electrician replaced with a plain bulb, he was there for fittings we were taking). Very odd experience visiting an old neighbour a year later in my own living room, haha. If it's not specified in the sale you're effectively littering by leaving it without agreement and it's better for a kind person to get the benefit of free stuff.

likke i said earlier why ask if not ncluded anyway
just raise the point with them

How did you get on today Op?

Another day of them being worse than useless. I finally received all the documents and sure enough the chair was included on the offer - the chair or the least of my worries.

I was told to contact the finances department about making the payment. I was put through to some random employee who seemed to know nothing. Worse, her husband was talking like a fog horn in the background. I politely said I couldnt hear her properly due to the noise and she curtly said 'well I'm working from home!' and suddenly the phone cut out.

Finally I got through to my own solicitor. He apologised for treating me badly and suggested he should reduce the fee. I agreed and asked him to do that, he mm'd and ah'd and gave me no affirmative response.

The worst part is this - I did not know until today I would need to travel to my bank branch to carry out the payment. I am working until 2pm and the bank closes are 3pm. I'll be bloody lucky to get it all done by I'm going to aim for it.

I feel angry because I think I deserve a reduced fee but I am drowning

I spoke to my doctor today about getting a new appointment to deal with my endometriosis but I just feel I need this to be over now

So if it was included in the offer, did you call.the estate agent back to point that out to them? Or is your solicitor doing that? What happened?

Also, you should send an email right now saying "further to our phone call today where you suggested reducing your fee due to your mismanagement of my file, I would like to confirm that a new fee arrangement of a (10/15/20%) would be acceptable.

How much are you paying Op? If it is a big sum then yes, some branches need you to go in. This all should have been explained to you. Usually, we ask for all funds to be in place, including loan funds the day before so for settlement tomorrow we would want everything in place today so we can send it to the other side first thing in the morning. This means you should be getting your keys early too.

@WhereverIGoddamnLike

So if it was included in the offer, did you call.the estate agent back to point that out to them? Or is your solicitor doing that? What happened?

Also, you should send an email right now saying "further to our phone call today where you suggested reducing your fee due to your mismanagement of my file, I would like to confirm that a new fee arrangement of a (10/15/20%) would be acceptable.

No, don’t go to them with a discount. Wait to see what they offer you. Have you had a draft state for settlement OP which will show what you are due to pay tomorrow in time for settlement.

@whitetilesmurf
She needs to get his offer of a reduction in writing. It is standard practice to follow up a verbal offer with an email repeating what was said.