Seller is 'taking' furniture despite my including it in offer letter?

[Rae34]

I have a worse than useless solicitor who I have spoken to just twice even though my date of entry is in 2 days. Really tearing my hair out here and have had no documents of any kind but anyway.

He has finally contacted me and said 'the seller is taking x pieces of furniture during the move, is that okay?'. This means I will now have nothing at all to sit in in the living room to start - these furniture pieces were included in the offer. What are my legal rights??

This might be my ignorance of the Scottish system, but how do you have a date of entry without paperwork!?

In England the date of completion (entry) isn't set until you've exchanged contracts.

I don't know. I had been hoping for guidance from my solicitor on these matters as a first time buyer. He has ignored calls and emails for months. I have been on the verge of a breakdown all day between this and work.

I asked for an inventory of items or furniture and he replied saying I wouldnt get this as it is not the done thing.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/cost-timeline-for-buying-a-property-in-scotland/amp

What parts of this apply OP? If you have a mortgage the bank must know when to start pulling the money for example?

Do you have your offer wording that you submitted to the agent (or the solicitor)?

To be honest, it is very hard to work out what has happened here.

In England, you (buyer) makes an offer (usually verbal on the phone) to the estate agent, who then goes to the vendor, who then accepts or declines.

Once agreement on sale price (and any special terms, like the chair) agreed, then solicitors are engaged.

Buyer puts in writing terms of agreement made with vendor and sends the to solicitor.

Solicitor then draws up paperwork on this basis.

So... did you put in writing to the solicitor about the furniture? Does the agent for the vendor recall you specifying the furniture?

It's hard to know if it's your problem or the solicitor's problem.

Can you spell out exactly how it proceeded?

Items of furniture can be part of the contract if you really insist, have discussed it and put that into the offer, but it is a bit odd, and it sounds like your solicitor didn't maybe bother. Honestly, it's a sofa/chair. I would suggest you just let it go, find your own furniture and complete the sale. These things are stressful enough without tussles over such minor points.

When we get so stressed out then every last tiny little thing can seem enormous - forget the sofa, complete the sale, enjoy your new home. Sit on the floor for a night, it's not the end of the world!

Anyway, pragmatic advice.

Someone somewhere has screwed up with the furniture. Let it go now.

Get the paperwork signed.

Insist on getting a rock solid completion/move-in date. (It will almost certainly not be on Friday.)

Complain about the solicitor when everything is concluded.

Can you speak to someone higher up in the solicitors? This all sounds very odd, we were kept up to date all the way through the buying process, given a list of what fixtures etc were included, info on services to property, phone provider etc. Signed quite a few things as well. In Scotland also.

NoSquirrels There is no reason why she won’t move in on Friday.

It isn’t clear who’s cocked up here. The agent or the solicitor. Either way someone is arse covering by asking you to agree to take the house minus the chair.

I asked for an inventory of items or furniture and he replied saying I wouldn't get this as it is not the done thing.

Well, I don't know the Scottish system either but surely that's not right. You should be entitled to a list of all items included in the sale and either the chair is listed or it's not.

Your 'solicitor' is shit but if it's just one chair (nice though it is) I'd let them have it to get the sale done.

@Nicknacky

NoSquirrels There is no reason why she won’t move in on Friday.

It sounds to me very much as if this is the first time the solicitor has got round to touching the file, there has been no signing of anything pre this point (or it would have come up before now) and therefore unlikely that Friday will be happening.

Hope to be wrong, obviously, for the OP's sake. But it's very unclear exactly where they are in the process if nothing at all has been signed.

NoSquirrels In Scotland the missives are concluded prior to entry date, the entry date is when funds and keys are exchanged. We don’t have exchange/completion up here.

The op hasn’t confirmed that the missives have been concluded but they should have been done long before now. That’s the thing to panic about, not a chair.

Although the sellers would be pushing to get them concluded anyway.

How can you be moving on Friday but not have seen any paperwork by Wednesday afternoon? @Nicknacky is this really normal?

Was the house sold to you as all furniture included? Or was it sold as furnished?

If the former then obviously the chair should be included and the seller would have to negotiate with you if they changed their mind.

If it's the latter I think it would be a bit of a grey area. Presumably the house still counts as furnished if it's just minus one chair, but you would think they would tell you before now which items they were taking.

I don't know.

I suppose it's up to you to decide whether the chair is worth fighting for or not.

CheetahsOnFajitas To be honest it’s been a few years since I bought but you are in at the solicitors signing the paperwork waaaay before entry date. I don’t recall ever having the paperwork personally, obviously the solicitors kept that.

Also, it would be really weird to view a house and then, out of the blue, make an offer which was “I will give you £250k but only if you include the living room sofa”. White goods perhaps at a push, but nobody makes offers that include specific bits of furniture.

Is it possible that you told the solicitor to make the offer in those terms (in Scotland offers go via solicitors) and he/she thought you were joking? Sort of “Ooh tell them I’ll pay that if they throw in the settee!”

Only time you might agree to buy furnished would be if vendor said there was something that they didn’t want to move and asked if you would like to buy it to save them the hassle of moving it.

@Nicknacky

NoSquirrels In Scotland the missives are concluded prior to entry date, the entry date is when funds and keys are exchanged. We don’t have exchange/completion up here.

The op hasn’t confirmed that the missives have been concluded but they should have been done long before now. That’s the thing to panic about, not a chair.

Although the sellers would be pushing to get them concluded anyway.

Yes, I realise this. I think that (on the balance of what the OP has said about not having seen any paperwork at all) that missives have not been concluded - and that therefore it is unlikely that funds and keys can be exchanged on Friday.

But hope to be wrong, as I said.

@Nicknacky

CheetahsOnFajitas To be honest it’s been a few years since I bought but you are in at the solicitors signing the paperwork waaaay before entry date. I don’t recall ever having the paperwork personally, obviously the solicitors kept that.

So why did you say there was no reason for her not to be moving in on Friday?

NoSquirrels And until the op clarifies we have no idea!

The missives are sorted. I do find it weird that I have seen nothing up until now.

The email said 'the seller is taking x pieces of furniture, is that ok? Once you let me know I can send the contract.'

Reference to sending the contract suggests to me that missives haven't been concluded yet, in which case you don't yet have a binding contract

You could try to agree a small reduction in purchase price eg if your offer included furniture worth £100, ask for £100 off the purchase price

You're not happy the solicitor suggested you contact the seller directly, but with an imminent date of entry, that's probably sensible to avoid delay if you're just talking about some furniture. Remember that your solicitor would charge you £ for contacting the seller's solicitor. Better to cut out the middle man

CheetahsinFajitas Because if she has concluded the missives she will be moving on Friday.

However, the sellers would not have let it get to this late stage without them being completed. That would be madness and probably rarely happens.

I was anxious when our missives weren’t concluded 3 weeks prior to our move and I gave our buyers a deadline to complete them.

Cross posts. Missives are concluded as I thought.

@Nicknacky

Cross posts. Missives are concluded as I thought.

But is that possible if she has never seen the paperwork. Would she not have to see the missives for them to be concluded?

@Rae34

The missives are sorted. I do find it weird that I have seen nothing up until now.

How do you know what you're contracted to pay, and how much, in that case, if you have never officially seen anything?

Obviously I am not in Scotland so listen to other more knowledgeable people but this sounds absolutely bonkers that you're committed on the basis of never having seen the terms.