elderly parent question

[brunetteandgrey]

Have NC for this and will try and keep it brief. This is not a stealth boast about what a good daughter I am and I hope it does not come across that way. I just wanted some opinions.

My parents, who do not live in the UK, are in their late 70s and have no pensions, savings or any other way to survive financially except for my dad's income (and I pay their medical insurance premiums). They just never provided for anything in their old age. That is the way they are. Never think about tomorrow.

My dad was working full time (own business) up until lockdown started (in their country they had a very severe first lockdown, he was not even allowed out of the front door so had no options). They had absolutely no income whatsoever and I am, at a pinch, in a position to support them, so since March I have been completely financially supporting them (the country where they live is much cheaper to live in than the UK, but it is still a bit of a drain, I have many other family committments including two stepchildren at university).

The lockdown in their country has eased quite a bit now and I have heard from my brother that my dad is doing some bits of work (using masks etc, as is mandatory where they live). I suppose he must be making a little bit of money at least. The thing is, that DH and I realised years ago that the time was going to come when we would have to financially support my parents, given their age and that they have no other form of income if my dad cannot work.

So, do we just decide that the time has come, speeded up a bit by the pandemic, and support them from now on? Or do I pull back a bit in the support for now, as my dad has some work. I worry about him working full-time (quite a physical job, with travelling) at his age anyway.

Is there no state pension in their country as we have? And is your brother in a position to shoulder the burden? Do they own their house so could do equity release?
If no to all those then it seems you dont have much of a choice. Your dad probably wont get his income back up to what they need and it's only going to go down as he ages.

You're asking this question on a British website, where it's normal to support elderly parents practically, but not financially, so you're not really going to get relevant answers to your culture, where I guess it's the norm to support them?

Could you and your brother/other siblings share the financial burden?

I am going to be harsher than the other people who replied.

Your parents made no effort to provide for their old age, why should you be expected to bail them out?

Your first priority is to yourself and your own family.

If you can comfortably financially help your parents on top of that, fine.

If that causes you hardship and puts your own welfare and that of your kids in jeopardy then then I am afraid they will have to live with the consequences of their own actions and you should not be supporting them to that extent.

If you have a brother he should also contribute equally.

In answer to questions:

No state pension whatsoever in the country where they live.

They do not own their house.

I earn at least twenty times what each of my two brothers earn, probably more (by virtue of my being a professional in the UK and they being non-professionals in a basically third-world country). They are not in a position to help in more than a token way financially. (My mother has a very wealthy brother UK but he is a total bastard who made his money highly unethically, and I wouldn't ask him for money under any circumstances).

Why should I "bail them out"? If I do not support my parents they literally have absolutely nothing. Apart from the fact that I love them and they are my parents, they made huge sacrifices to give me the education which has allowed me to get to the position I am in. I am not going to abandon them to die (literally, if I did not pay for private medical insurance in their country they both would have been dead years ago). I don't want to see my parents begging by the side of the road by the side of the road (a real option for a huge amount of old people in the country where they live).

The question is not whether I support them, I have to, have been paying their medical insurance and some bills since the 1990s. The question is if I continue to fully support them now, as I have been since March, or cut back to where things were before the pandemic, thereby putting pressure on my father to try and work full time again.

PS our "culture" is that we are all British. But they don't live in the UK, nor do my brothers.

Can you go half-way? If you’re comfortable with your dad working a little bit, you can contribute some money directly to him now. Assuming you’re in fact able to give him more in your current financial position, maybe you can save that extra portion in a high interest account to take off some of the financial pressure on you later.

But yes, it does sound like the time to provide at least some support has been hastened.

The question only seemed to come up when you found out your DF had some part time work - is part of you annoyed he didn't tell you and you found out via your brother?

Would it be worth speaking to them and doing some planning? For example, could you buy a property where they live so you're not paying for rent? What happens if there's some sort of unexpected disaster and you can't pay for them any more? What happens if their living costs go up as they get older?

I would keep supporting them at full rate. Late seventies is well within retirement range. You’re a good person to take care of them for their final years. I know your brothers can’t contribute as much money, but if they live nearby can they provide hands on care? House cleaning, take to doctors appointments etc?

In your shoes I think I’d accept that the time you’ve always anticipated has come. You knew you’d end up supporting them entirely at some point and that point is now.

You’re a bloody brilliant person, by the way, not everyone would do this or support their stepchildren through university. I really admire you.

The part-way idea is quite appealing. thanks for that. I might put some extra money aside now for later when they need more help than they do now...and yes, costs will go up later, if they need care etc. We always knew that would be the case. I am just hoping my stepchildren finish university before that happens...when they do that will take a big financial load off us...

Parents don't pay rent, they are living rent free in a friend's property, have been for thirty years (I don't really understand the arrangement, something to do with some favour they did this person decades ago). So their living costs are by UK standards pretty modest. For comparison, their living costs (excluding medical insurance) amount to about 3% of our gross monthly income (but of course we have first-world outgoings).

Yes, I guess I have to admit I was was a little annoyed that they didn't tell me that Daddy was doing some work (I would prefer, at his age, that he stayed safely indoors, but I know that is very difficult for him, despite his age he is very active and gregarious). I don't want them to feel controlled by me though, the idea of trying to control them by use of my financial situation is very unattractive to me (more something my horrible uncle would be likely to do). The idea of them feeling happy and secure, and not pressured, is actually pretty important for my own mental health (which is not always the best), and that too has to be factored in.

Yes, I think the pandemic has just made it clear that the time has come, true. Thanks for that.

My brothers don't live in the same town as the parents but do keep up lots of contact for social purposes, which is important to my parents. If push came to shove the parents (or one surviving one if that was the case) could go and live with one of my brothers, but right now uprooting them does not seem a good idea...they have lived in the same house for nearly 50 years, have lots of pets, friends etc

My brothers are well aware that I support the parents and are not ungrateful.

Educating my fabulous stepchildren has been one of the greatest pleasures of my life. No hardship at all, even when it was quite a financial squeeze (when they were back at school), the benefits outweighed all else. They are now both following in my footsteps in their degrees/career choices. Back in the country where they came from (which the same country my parents live in) there would never have had that opportunity. I love them dearly and they have promised to make sure I have wine and chocolate in my own old age! (although, unlikemy parents I have a pension, life insurance, property etc...).

I think I would just say to them "I will pay your living costs from this point forward".
You are right about not wanting to control them with money. You can't stop your df from working so I wouldn't try. By paying them a set sum each month and saying you will carry on doing so you can leave them to make their own choices.

Yes Charley, I think that really is the kindest thing to do, and what I lose in money (which is not going to bankupt me but perhaps means I have to work a little harder than I otherwise might, as my income is almost entirely dependent on how much work I do) I think I will gain in peace of mind.

Why should I "bail them out"? If I do not support my parents they literally have absolutely nothing. Apart from the fact that I love them and they are my parents, they made huge sacrifices to give me the education which has allowed me to get to the position I am in. I am not going to abandon them to die (literally, if I did not pay for private medical insurance in their country they both would have been dead years ago). I don't want to see my parents begging by the side of the road by the side of the road (a real option for a huge amount of old people in the country where they live).

I am increasingly flabbergasted by people asking questions like the OP had to answer here. They are her PARENTS. She loves them. They brought her up. Yes, if it was going to mean penury I would be trying to get the OP to minimise her support for her own sake, but of course she isn’t going to let them starve.

Hmm difficult...
What are tehy like with money? Are they responsible with it? Are they reliant on you now through bad luck and lack of opportunity or their poor / irresponsible choices?

I think scaling back the support now might be prudent - then you could lay a little aside for their future needs (but don't tell them this), and finish paying for your stepkids. It might also teach them to be less reliant on you.

OTOH if they genuinely can't earn then you might just have to accept it.

you sound lovely by the way!

^ and when I say scaling back I mean a little - to somewhere between what you're giving them now anbd what they had before!

Oh they are not very responsible with money, in my view, except for one enormous exception, they basically spent everything they had at the time on my education, much to their own detriment at the time. Which of course I would consider a worthwhile investment! When I say they are not very responsible I mean more in terms of lack of planning or foresight (they never insure anything for example) than that they are profligate with money. They have had some bad luck too, and bad luck combined with chronically failing to insure against any losses is not a good combination.

Thanks flaviaritt, yes, I too think it is an odd question to be asked why I don't want my elderly parents to be destitute! Saying to your 78-year old father, who you love dearly (despite clashing with him repeatedly through life), "oh Daddy, I am off on a holiday, sorry you are starving/dying through lack of medical care, you should have thought about that before" is not exactly the way I want to live my life. Blame at this stage is totally pointless.

The question of culture is an interesting one. It is perfectly normal in many cultures to support one's elderly parents. Even in "British" culture (a PP said above that I was not going to get relevent answers to my culture on a British forum, well, I know that many British Indians, British Pakistanis, British Africans etc would do this, it's not an essentially non-British thing to do). BTW we are actually white English British people, so maybe some people from our so-called "culture" may find it unusual, it seems so from some of the answers on here...some of which surprised me...

My paremts did try their best to be less reliant on me. My father is 78 and was still working full-time, in a physical, outdoor job, to minimise how much they have had to get from me...then came the pandemic. I don't think failing to support them now is going to "teach" them anything.

Just out of curiosity OP, if you have been paying your parents medical insurance since the 90s - even if it was from 1999 that is still over 20 years ago. You also say your Father is 'active and gregarious' now, even starting his own business, surely that would have been the case over 20 years ago when he would have been mid to late 50s.

They have left an awful lot to chance OP. They may live rent free at he discretion of a friend but what happens if the friend wants the property back? You come across as a devoted and caring daughter and of course you don't want to see your parents destitute. To be honest, I would have been a little hurt to discover that he was working again, yet still taking the full support money. Its mean of spirit, when they just assume you will take over financial responsibility.

I understand that you are grateful for the opportunities they have given you but how can you have not had a conversation about it when you have been paying out over 20 years? At least so you can plan ahead?

3%

So if you earn £3000 a month it only costs £90 to support your parents ?

Seems really cheap

Why would you have to work more to find £90 if you're a high earner?

If they're British they're likely able to get the pension from here?

Hi OP - seems like we have crossed post and you have answered some of my questions

Who said I earn £3000 a month? I did not say that, and I don;t.

They are British by nationality but have not lived in Britain since the 1960s and have never worked in Britain, so no pension.

"Leaving a lot to chance" could be my parents' motto in life, yes. Completely agree. But we are where we are.

Why they have never been able to afford medical insurance despite my dad having a business and working hard: The medical insurance in their country is vastly expensive in comparison to average earnings, only the really superwealthy can really afford it (by comparison average earnings there are about 5% of average earnings in the UK, yet for their medical insurance for two of them in their country I pay about the same as what I pay in an EU country for five of us, ie me, DH and three children). They were, in their fifties, "leaving it to chance" that they would not get ill and depend on the state health system, which is not a good idea in their country. I had to step in.

I would say, you have to be able to sleep at night, and if you have to work a little harder to ensure they are OK then so be it.

You don't want to have any regrets in the future or extreme feelings of guilt.

They are grown ups. They are taking the pi**. I would leave them to sort out their own issues. You are their child, not their cash cow .