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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be shocked that this still goes on in the USA? Trigger warning: corporal punishment in schools

91 replies

WoolieLiberal · 24/11/2020 09:47

I feel completely sick seeing this. Apparently corporal punishment is still legal in the Deep South.

Sick fucking country!

So glad to be British.

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/04/16/us/georgia-school-paddle-video/index.html

OP posts:
EKGEMS · 24/11/2020 14:00

@WoolieLiberal Its called a paddle and no I don't support the policy of corporal punishment. So you can paint everyone with the same brush? There's hundreds of millions of Americans and we are all unique. You're coming across as extremely narrow minded and I stand by what I said previously we aren't a third world and backwards state. The UK and the USA are intertwined nations and probably always will be

AnotherNameForChristmas · 24/11/2020 14:04

No one should ever be allowed to hit children though. Its barbaric and teaches them nothing

It teaches them it's OK to hit someone if their behaviour annoys you.
It teaches them that you can hit weaker and smaller people
It teaches them that violence is OK (in some circumstances which are not clear to them).

FrangipaniBlue · 24/11/2020 14:10

@flaviaritt

That mother just taught her son that she will not always do everything in her power to protect him from harm - she put herself before her child.

Very, very harsh. What’s he going to do with him mum in prison?

So are you saying you would allow your child to come to physical harm in order to prevent yourself being arrested?

So he may have to spend a few days with other family members or friends while his mum is in prison, but the reason was because she was putting him first and her actions were done to protect him. More harm will come from him thinking mummy doesn't care that from him spending a couple of days away from her - she's not going to be serving a life sentence FFS

EKGEMS · 24/11/2020 14:11

@AnotherNameForChristmas I wondered how long it would be before someone trotted out the archaic stereotypes of the southern US. There's many kind,decent and hardworking people who live in the rural United States who love their neighbors and have no hate or prejudice in their hearts. There's hateful people in every state and city of the US and in the UK like any place populated with human beings

stopgap · 24/11/2020 14:13

Good grief. That is appalling. Where I live (Connecticut) is about as progressive a town as you could imagine. Our schools talk inclusivity, respect, kindness, and no way would that fly here.

contrmary · 24/11/2020 14:18

The mother agreed to it so she would avoid prison, so really the anger should be directed at her. The school employee was just doing their job.

DrDavidBanner · 24/11/2020 14:19

Were talking about a country that has armed police officers in schools. I don't think you can compare them to what goes on in UK schools.

www.vox.com/identities/2018/9/20/17856416/school-discipline-policing-black-students-report

www.npr.org/2020/06/23/881608999/why-theres-a-push-to-get-police-out-of-schools

WoolieLiberal · 24/11/2020 14:25

In the UK it had fallen out of use anyway by the 80s. A bit of googling and I found that only 1/3 of secondary schools were still using it when it was allowed, and even then it tended to be infrequent. I know my school didn’t use it. Most primary schools stopped in the 60s.

It would still be wrong if it was a large teenage bully being struck but the fact that a state employee was about to hit a SCREAMING FIVE YEAR OLD with a bat as a state sanctioned punishment just makes me sick.

I don’t agree with smacking but most smacks are administered instantly and in the heat of the moment. The systematic way in this was being done just made me feel ill.

OP posts:
PrincessNutNut · 24/11/2020 14:30

@contrmary

The mother agreed to it so she would avoid prison, so really the anger should be directed at her. The school employee was just doing their job.
You MIGHT have got away with this, because it's just about on the believable side of asininity, but along with the username, you jumped the shark. Better luck next time.
AnotherNameForChristmas · 24/11/2020 14:37

[quote EKGEMS]@AnotherNameForChristmas I wondered how long it would be before someone trotted out the archaic stereotypes of the southern US. There's many kind,decent and hardworking people who live in the rural United States who love their neighbors and have no hate or prejudice in their hearts. There's hateful people in every state and city of the US and in the UK like any place populated with human beings [/quote]
I don't believe I stereotyped anywhere. Life is very different in New York or any other major city compared to rural areas in the south (or rural areas of any region, really). The laws and the culture are dramatically different in the two areas. My point was people saying the USA is "third word" or backward are wrong; some of the laws in some states are a bit backward, but the USA in general can't be written off because of the laws of one county in one state.

BiBabbles · 24/11/2020 14:44

It is disgusting, though not shocking - at least to me.

State monopoly of legitimized violence has happened for centuries. It happened here when the UK was a world power too, to an equally horrific extent, and still does today that the UK has been knocked down a few pegs. There is issues of rapes in UK immigration detention centres and deaths in state facilities including those involving kids swept under the carpet. Many of the recommendations in recent reports have gone ignored and even the ones they agreed on, they've generally done fuckall about.

And for those blaming the mother, I don't think we can know exactly her relation with the prison system that helped her be coerced into that position. In some areas, it's more common that if a mother goes to prison and the child ends up in care because of that, it's really difficult to get her kids back even if it was something simple like this. Georgia is an at-will employment state so anything involving the police might cost her her job. I had a relative in the US who was used as 'an example' in what today doesn't even get most people a slap on the wrist. There could be a lot of factors we don't know about.

Living in New York City is like another world compared to living in rural Georgia or Mississippi.

New York City is another world to most of the rest of the US. It's easy to tell when something about the South or Midwest is written by an NYC or West Coast writers because they make the same ridiculous stereotypes about being backwards.

New York is an at-will state too, just like Georgia, even though most other states have brought in exceptions. In many ways, it's backwards too.

Porcupineinwaiting · 24/11/2020 14:51

@FrangipaniBlue you know nothing about that woman's life. A few days in prison (might not be a few)and she might lose her job, her home... Child might end up in foster care. If the absolute worst thing that could happen to your child is that someone hits him, then he, and you, are bloody privileged.

Fifthtimelucky · 24/11/2020 14:57

Heart-breaking.

But what surprised me the most was that I thought children didn't start school until 6 in the US.

And it would be interesting to know why the child had missed so much school at such an early age. I don't automatically want to blame the mother without knowing the full facts, but most 5 year olds aren't responsible for getting themselves to school. If a child that young is not attending school I'd have thought it was unlikely to be his fault.

AnotherNameForChristmas · 24/11/2020 15:32

But what surprised me the most was that I thought children didn't start school until 6 in the US

I'm not an expert, so an American might well come along and correct me, but 6 year olds is the 1st grade. Americans have pre-K and K before that. Pre-K is I believe like nursery school here, and Kindergarten is like reception or year 1. Totally different system from here.

AnotherNameForChristmas · 24/11/2020 15:34

@Fifthtimelucky

Heart-breaking.

But what surprised me the most was that I thought children didn't start school until 6 in the US.

And it would be interesting to know why the child had missed so much school at such an early age. I don't automatically want to blame the mother without knowing the full facts, but most 5 year olds aren't responsible for getting themselves to school. If a child that young is not attending school I'd have thought it was unlikely to be his fault.

I think the article said 17 days or so? I only skimmed, though. If it is a recent event, it can be explained by several colds which required covid testing before he came back I suppose.
WoolieLiberal · 24/11/2020 16:12

The punishment was for spitting as I understand it, not being late.

From the same lovely Deep South that brings you the electric chair...

apnews.com/article/7121e608498fe4c24359035853801ff3

And pro-guns but anti NHS.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6187962/

That said, at least with the latter option you have a quick out if the pain gets too much because you can’t afford treatment, so it’s not all bad...

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AlexaPlayWhiteNoise · 24/11/2020 16:51

Sick fucks. Absolute sick fucks. Fucking lot of them. The mother for standing by and allowing it. The woman for doing it. The person holding him down. The administration that allows it. Sick, sick fuckers.

Grace58 · 24/11/2020 17:02

That’s just vile. I can believe it easily though, my stepmother is from the Deep South and used to spank her own kids at that age with belts and wooden spoons for far less than spitting at someone. Funnily enough we are NC and she has never been anywhere near my children!

Fifthtimelucky · 24/11/2020 17:14

Oh yes. I've watched it again. It seems the punishment was for spitting and it stops him from being suspended, which his mother wants to avoid as otherwise she will be jailed.

So the way the school deals with a badly behaving 5 year old is either to beat him or to suspend him and then put his mother in prison?

Completely mad.

Mcnotty · 24/11/2020 17:19

@WoolieLiberal

Mcnotty got this hilariously wrong.

It’s the former Soviet Republic of Georgia that recently banned corporal punishment of children in every setting.

The third-world US state of Georgia still has it along with 17 other states.

It was a current news article that linked to that. I just felt so sick that I had to raise awareness of it still going on.

I beg your pardon Shock, case of mistaken identity of town. I truly thought it was Georgia in the U.S Blush. That'll teach me.
bitheby · 24/11/2020 17:29

It's from 2016. Nothing to do with Covid.

WoolieLiberal · 24/11/2020 18:34

Bet this is the sort of sick perverted world that means people die because theres no NHS in the richest place on the plante yet you beat poor defenceless kids and let fucking assholds with guns walk the streets. SOUNDS LIKE HELL ON EARTH TO ME!!!

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WoolieLiberal · 24/11/2020 19:37

So fucking upset about this I can’t unsee it.

My friend I showed it to said maybe the woman doing the beating thought she wS saving the boys soul by beasting Satan out of him!!!

What the actual fuck???? Where did Jesus ever say its saving a boys soul to beat a five year old with a fucking crickett bat?????

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StoneofDestiny · 24/11/2020 20:12

How utterly barbaric and inhumane.

No excuse at all for two adults administering such cruelty, the mother allowing it, and the citizens of the state agreeing to have this on their statute book.

No surprise though from a part of the USA that thinks gun carrying is an essential right, that thinks the death penalty is a sign of civilisation, that has fundamentalist Christian churches bursting at the seems promoting their Old Testament extremism and doesn't seem to think a National Health Service is a right for all.

PrincessNutNut · 24/11/2020 20:56

@WoolieLiberal

So fucking upset about this I can’t unsee it.

My friend I showed it to said maybe the woman doing the beating thought she wS saving the boys soul by beasting Satan out of him!!!

What the actual fuck???? Where did Jesus ever say its saving a boys soul to beat a five year old with a fucking crickett bat?????

Quite possibly she did, and I think that would actually make it worse. If you think you're doing divine work and it's all moralising shite, you're even less likely ever to question what you're doing and there's the added aggravation of thinking it makes you better than other people.