To hate landlords?

[MsPeachh]

Last month, I had to move suddenly. I found the flat I’m in now, it had just been bought by my landlord and I’m the first person in after the former owner moved out. It’s an ex-council house that the owner had purchased under “right to buy” and now I have to pay a third of my salary to a private landlord for what was originally meant to be affordable housing.

I’m a scientist in my late twenties with good qualifications and I feel total despair that I might never be able to afford my own home, and I will be lining someone else’s pockets via rent for the rest of my life. Let alone what anyone in a position less fortunate than mine is supposed to do.

To make matters worse, I looked up my landlord’s info on Companies House and I discovered that they have 22 properties in my area! It’s a village on the outskirts of a town where lots of people move when they are ready to move out of the hustle and bustle and settle to raise kids. And more and more of these properties are being snapped up by this landlord. It makes me sick, honestly. I know a lot of people become landlords accidentally in later life due to remarrying etc and ending up with two houses between one couple, but this landlord sucking up 22 houses in such a small area disgusts me. I feel like I’m completely losing hope for the future of people my age and younger as house prices keep soaring and soaring.

AIBU?

@the80sweregreat

Other areas I thought would be ' dirt cheap' are not these days. Everywhere is pricy.

This morning I decided to look up house prices in area often reported as being amongst the UK's most deprived (outside of London). It was absolutely cheap... compared to over inflated for 20 years London prices - but very expensive for the average local salary.

Not all landlords are Bad People.
It's the system that's wrong.

Lots of landlords / ladies are fine. It's the bad ones that should be named and shamed.

I actually go over and above for my tenants because I provide a very high standard of property and they pay a good rent. They are students, and I'm not depriving anyone of a family home by renting my properties out - families don't want to live in the city centre.

I actually far prefer renting to students as they generally cause LESS damage and are easier to deal with than families or single male tenants (some are ok) and I sold a smaller non-student rental property as it was just too much hassle dealing with the constant damage and tenant issues.

It really is ridiculous how helpless some of them are though. I've had texts from both my flats tonight, asking for help. One flat has complained about the dishwasher being broken and an extractor fan not working - fair enough. I'm already visiting the other flat later this week because they have to be shown how to work the central heating as they can't follow the manual. But they have just complained about the tumble dryer marking some of their clothes (if anyone has a solution for that one please let me know!) and not being able to work the oven, which is a brand new one. And their wifi doesn't work. What I'm supposed to do about that I don't know.

I don't think a lot of the tenants on here complaining actually realises the work involved in being a landlord. You are never off duty, you are constantly on call. I pay a fortune to HMRC and local authorities in tax and licenses before I even start paying my mortgages. And I provide a basic need - housing.

The way tax is going, it might actually be cheaper to give up my job so I pay basic rate tax on the rental income.

You are never off duty, you are constantly on call.

That's why I have no interest in being a LL.

Smallsteps88

I put my flat on the market and it sold to a FTB within the day. 3 months on and about to sign. FTB had paid out for a survey and mortgage arrangement and solicitors fees and they pulled out of the purchase

Flat put back on the market and same thing happens

Flat put back on the market and ditto

For that to happen 3 times I’d suspect something came up in the survey or something else is wrong with the flat

Nothing came up in the survey, nothing wrong with the flat and even if there was a problem I would think you would mention it more in one case, an hour, another a day, or a week before the appointment to exchange contracts.

I think the average amount they each lost was close to £5,000 on wasted fees and solicitors cost.

I think the average amount they each lost was close to £5,000 on wasted fees and solicitors cost.

This is why I think something was wrong with the flat, for 3 separate buyers to pull out after spending several thousand pounds. That’s quite strange.

But to pull out on the morning they were going to exchange.

Surely they would have pulled out before.

And why then did the BTL landlords mortgage provider think it was ok to lend on the flat at more money.

One of the reasons given was they got scared. The last said he thought if he saved more he could afford better.
As it was one of the cheapest flats on the market in the area and I sold it the next day for £20,000 more I think he might have missed the boat in that area.

I am wondering what you think could possibly be wrong with a flat that had a 125 year lease, over looking green belt land close to the shops and transport and nothing found to be of note on 4 surveys and one of the buyers then went for a full structural survey just to be sure.

I have no idea, I didn’t view it or have it surveyed. So couldn’t possibly know. That’s why people do these things- because you can’t tell from a description (from the people trying to sell it) on the internet. I just think it’s strange that all 3 buyers did that after spending a big chunk of their own money on the process. You don’t think that’s strange?

@Oliversmumsarmy my MIL's neighbour has tried to sell his house 3 times and each time the chain broke down. The last time it broke down, the FTB of the flat at the bottom of the chain also pulled out on the morning of the sale, claiming they didn''t know that the service charges were so high after months of transacting (huh?!). He has given up on selling and upgrading even though he has the money.

In a way, though I have never pulled out before (being a london flat buyer, i got gazumped twice and the second time i was gazumped, i actually went ahead), i understand why you need to be 100% sure if you are buying a property to live in. As from my neighbour's example, its not so easy to sell and move out even if you have the money; if you are in a chain, it isn't really within your control what eventually happens. You can sell and move into rental while looking but unless you find a chain free property, you can encounter the same problems and have the added stress of moving twice. We should really have a better system of buying and selling property so it isn't so easy to pull out but until then, selling and buying is going to be difficult. I also think this does inflate property values as most people would try to minimize house moves which leads to lack of supply on the market.

I just think it’s strange that all 3 buyers did that after spending a big chunk of their own money on the process. You don’t think that’s strange

I have sold other properties before and dealt with FTBs before and unfortunately I have to say I really don’t find it strange.

I find people who are 2nd or 3rd time buyers much easier to deal with as they know what they are looking at and it isn’t so scary.

I had one FTB who, (much to everyones amusement) told the estate agent that he couldn’t continue with the purchase of another flat I had because he was dead.

Whilst FTBs complain about getting the deposit together the amount of money I have seen wasted in aborted attempts to buy makes me think they don’t really want to buy or they have more money than sense

I don't think anyone can say all landlords are bad or all tenants are bad unless they've been both. I used to be a tenant and my landlords were fine. I'm now a landlord and I'd like to think I'm a good one (tenants have sent Xmas cards and 'thank you' cards when they left so I'm hoping that means I did a good job).

To say all landlords are bad just because of a bad experience, and without having been one and not knowing what being a landlord entails, is just childish and unreasonable. Thus it lacks any credibility.

Neither the NHS nor the welfare state (including social housing) were created for altruistic reasons. A major motivating factor was the public health consequences - and the need to have a reasonably healthy, fed, and housed workforce. Also the need to stave off civil unrest and tackle crime rates (desperate destitute people...)
This exactly!

If we want to compare housing to health, then ownership would be private healthcare. It's not a due to have more control over waiting times, named consultants and more person centered care. It comes at a cost and to afford it mean making different choices/sacrifices.

Tax landlords rental income more heavily
Ummm, they are, it's been increased for the past 4 years. It's now at a point where it's becoming unaffordable for smaller landlords and many have decided to sell, putting a family on the street, a family who might been very happy to rent. Could they afford to buy the house? Rarely. Did it bring the housing market down? Nope!

See? Another example of a comment with no prior knowledge of the subject at hand. 'Tax landlords rental income more heavily' - it's happening already - why do you think many landlords are selling up? And what do you think happens to these properties? That they get purchased by FTBs? Of course not. Wake up and smell the coffee, people. Landlords are providing a service - it's a case of supply and demand.

They're not supplying a service - they're charging money for a subsidiary land right. And it's not supply and demand - it's financial inequality.

As for people being "childish" to form an opinion based on personal experience - saying you know how every landlord is because you once had a landlord and you are one now is doing exactly that.

One third of private residential properties are classed as substandard. So no, not all landlords blah but in policy terms this is an issue, particularly when taxpayers are handing over money to private landlords at a rate of £12 billion a year (ie more than next year's overseas aid figure) in housing benefit.

Let's not kid ourselves that private landlords are providing any "services" aside from have renters pay off their landlord's mortgage for them plus generate some income after any maintenance expense. Instead of allowing those renters to save up for their own deposit, keeping them in an endless cycle of renting. There is no real economic output, no services were exchanged unlike hotels or serviced apartments, no goods were produced.

If even heavier tax (bringing landlord profits severely down to the extent it is not economic) or legislation prevents a property being bought to let, and by "law of supply and demand", the property would sell and price would adjust to the point it is met by some "demand". At least the property would be owner occupied.

Landlords dont rent out property out of goodwill and love of fixing boilers or mould, they do it to profit. This is intrinsically at odds with the need for decent quality social housing. which is a problem that cant be solved by private landlords.

Let's not kid ourselves that private landlords are providing any "services" aside from have renters pay off their landlord's mortgage for them plus generate some income after any maintenance expense. Instead of allowing those renters to save up for their own deposit, keeping them in an endless cycle of renting.

And yet again we have the assumption that everyone wants to go straight from living with their parents to home ownership.

And yet again we have the assumption that everyone wants to go straight from living with their parents to home ownership.

Exactly! I've rented on 3 separate occasions (several different houses each time) and I would not have wanted to buy in those situations. University, didn't want the responsibility of ownership. Training program- knew I'd only be there 2 years, knew it wasn't somewhere I wanted to stay so didn't want to buy. Moved to new city, wanted to get to know it first before buying. So I bought a service by renting a house.

If even heavier tax (bringing landlord profits severely down to the extent it is not economic) or legislation prevents a property being bought to let, and by "law of supply and demand", the property would sell and price would adjust to the point it is met by some "demand". At least the property would be owner occupied

Plenty of affordable property around mime. Looks like all that FTBs with deposits desperate to buy are missing tho.

@Dilemmmmma

And yet again we have the assumption that everyone wants to go straight from living with their parents to home ownership.

Exactly! I've rented on 3 separate occasions (several different houses each time) and I would not have wanted to buy in those situations. University, didn't want the responsibility of ownership. Training program- knew I'd only be there 2 years, knew it wasn't somewhere I wanted to stay so didn't want to buy. Moved to new city, wanted to get to know it first before buying. So I bought a service by renting a house.

Good for you. Meanwhile a sizeable proportion of the population can't afford to access an essential need - a home...one that is secure and fit for human habitation.

Of course renting is ok in itself. When, like other countries (and us before the 90s) there is rent control and secure tenancies.

If private landlords are unwilling or unable to provide that, then we need the state to step in through social housing.

I am so sorry - it is impossible. People who bought even a few years ago have no idea how hard it has become for first time buyers. Affordable housing is a joke. When I was young and living in London a lot of my friends bought flats together and had tenancy in common type agreements. Not ideal, but it was the only way to get on the ladder. I agree, I cant stand Homes under the hammer for the same reason you gave.

I’m sure that most of us landlords were also previously renters. We’re not some weird breed of human out to destroy people’s hopes and dreams. Nope, just normal everyday people.
I’ve made a decision to become a landlord because I could afford to, however as PPs have said, we’re being taxed and regulated to hell, so it’s not all fun and games. Not looking forward to Rishi’s tax raid next year!
I’m a bloody good landlord too, look after my tenants and everything done by the book.
I won’t be made to feel guilty about doing something that’s perfectly legal.
Your hate needs to be directed at successive governments who have failed to build anywhere near enough social housing, despite promising to do so.

@Giningit

I’m sure that most of us landlords were also previously renters. We’re not some weird breed of human out to destroy people’s hopes and dreams. Nope, just normal everyday people. I’ve made a decision to become a landlord because I could afford to, however as PPs have said, we’re being taxed and regulated to hell, so it’s not all fun and games. Not looking forward to Rishi’s tax raid next year! I’m a bloody good landlord too, look after my tenants and everything done by the book. I won’t be made to feel guilty about doing something that’s perfectly legal. Your hate needs to be directed at successive governments who have failed to build anywhere near enough social housing, despite promising to do so.

Yes agree with all above this is me too! Landlady by accident but a bloody good one 👌🏻

On reading previous posts I see mention of taxing landlords more heavily in future. Who do those posters think would buy the properties landlords would therefore sell on (due to increased tax)? In many cases, those renting would still not be in a position to buy, even if prices dropped. For example, those in unemployment, elderly, zero hour contracts, etc.

It's not totally black and white - there are bad landlords and good ones. Those that go above the call of duty helping their tenants have a safe and comfortable home should not be penalised or made to feel guilty for being in a position to do so.

@december212 as i was a first time buyer buying in london, almost all the properties available to me were owned by landlords, with the exception of a young family who could afford to move up the ladder in the same area (dad had his own business in the city). I even viewed a property where the landlord decided to tell the renters, a couple with a 11 month old baby that he was selling to an investor who would allow them to stay,. The agent told them that I was an investor and I only found this out upon viewing the property. Unfortunately for the agent, I am 27 years old and to Western eyes, look 16 (have been mistaken to be primary school age by kids before). So the tenants didn't buy the story at all, and proceeded to tell me in detail about all the faults of the property, which was lucky for me. Meanwhile, the estate agent looked like he wanted to sink right in the floor.

Eventually bought another flat from a landlord selling his properties. That guy gazumped us :( But yes at that time in 2019, a lot of landlords were leaving the london rental market due to record low yields so I found that I could actually afford to buy in london and it was a better market for buyers than in the home counties where the propertie were often going above asking price.