To hate landlords?

[MsPeachh]

Last month, I had to move suddenly. I found the flat I’m in now, it had just been bought by my landlord and I’m the first person in after the former owner moved out. It’s an ex-council house that the owner had purchased under “right to buy” and now I have to pay a third of my salary to a private landlord for what was originally meant to be affordable housing.

I’m a scientist in my late twenties with good qualifications and I feel total despair that I might never be able to afford my own home, and I will be lining someone else’s pockets via rent for the rest of my life. Let alone what anyone in a position less fortunate than mine is supposed to do.

To make matters worse, I looked up my landlord’s info on Companies House and I discovered that they have 22 properties in my area! It’s a village on the outskirts of a town where lots of people move when they are ready to move out of the hustle and bustle and settle to raise kids. And more and more of these properties are being snapped up by this landlord. It makes me sick, honestly. I know a lot of people become landlords accidentally in later life due to remarrying etc and ending up with two houses between one couple, but this landlord sucking up 22 houses in such a small area disgusts me. I feel like I’m completely losing hope for the future of people my age and younger as house prices keep soaring and soaring.

AIBU?

@dontdisturbmenow actually its much more tax efficient to own a very nice house than be a small scale landlord! I would never want to be a landlord after seeing all the rule and taxes which would only get worse as more people are priced out and the government looks for an easy scapegoat. I guess, the hatred at landlords is because most renters on low incomes would never own the big houses anyway so people might as well buy them but they can see themselves owning ex rentals. I own an ex rental, I would probably always own ex rentals, i just can't see myself owning a £1 million house in London.

The only thing you have to worry about having a very nice house is mansion tax possibly in the future, but i don't really see that they can impose it for properties that are £1-1.5 million. The £2 million crowd should be worried. Also from what i can see in my area, big and expensive properties are harder to sell.

You can see that when families are renting in conditions like this, they are not going to like landlords a lot
Absolutely and completely. I certainly do not defend all LLs, some are certainly despicable, but this thread was started by someone who resent her LL just because they own properties when they don't.

We've already identified that many who claim not to be able to afford to be home owners could very much become do, if they accepted it will take a few more years, if they accepted that they'd have to give up luxuries that they enjoy because it makes them feel better o fat other things that they don't have their own place, if the accepted to start with a not so nice smaller place than what they are renting, I'd they accepted to get on the ladder before starting family.

40% feel bitter for not being home owners, but for a large number of these, it is because they didn't made homeownship a priority in itself.

The government could do so much more to help people to rent and buy without effectively nationalising the rental market.

I'm The Netherlands for instance, mortgage interest tax relief is still available in yiur first home, and you can carry it through to later purchases, pegged at the level of yiur first mortgage.

Emoyees can deduct commuting to work costs from their tax bill.

Planning in this country could be less in davour of big developers and used to create more 3 storey terraced houses well integrated into the community with transport links. Instead of the edge of town 5 bedroom detacheds with a few social houses stuck in a hidden corner.

People really need to question government motives more (all too often resulting in policies based on cronyism) rather than this sheep like hatred of individual landlords.

Continental Europe and how everyone there rents always gets mentioned on threads like these. The thing is, a large number of people on the "continent" live in one or two bedroom flats in high rises - including professionals and families. Children share bedrooms until they move out.
This is how large numbers of people are able to be housed affordably.

But British people, rightly or wrongly, look down on that type of housing. Hardly anyone here wants to live in a 70s high rise. People want a 3 bedroom terrace/semi with a garden as a minimum when they gave children.
Whereas in the rest of Europe this is considered a luxury. If you were to rent or buy that type of house there it would be expensive and unaffordable for many, just like it is here.
Also the Uk is a small island, so land is at a premium. That makes it even more costly and impractical to house people in low-rise individual housing.

In most areas in the Uk, other than maybe London, a person on an average salary could buy a one or two bed flat. It might not be in a very attractive looking building or a nice middle class area, and you may have to do renovations to it, but these homes exist.

@ChochoCrazyCat my DH's grandfather house in Nuremberg is valued at £600k. it is a 3 bedroom house with garden, 1500 sq feet excluding basement. He owns it. Its a lot cheaper than London, DH and I could hardly believe it when we heard. Our flat in london is worth 400k and is so much smaller. Nuremberg is a fairly wealthy city. I think the house prices in most German cities except maybe Munich are still lower than in London. Also the flats in Germany are a lot bigger than the flats in London, our 'studio' in Berlin was 43 sq m (and the authorities thought it was far too small) and the 2 bedroom flats would often be over 1000 sq feet which is a terrace house in london but takes up less space.

I think its also the availability of housing. I would love a 3 bedroom flat, and so did DH's German mother when she was looking in the 1990s. She found that the big flats were more expensive than the houses. In my area of London, there aren't many 3 bedroom flats.

@ChochoCrazyCat can only speak for london, but everyone i know who bought in london has bought a flat (with the exception of someone who bought a very run down 1 bedroom house). Oh and someone whose parents gave him their BTL 2 bed house.

I think there is a disparity between those that went to university and those that learned a trade.

Those that went to uni are starting 5 years behind those that went into a trade

I am in London and even the 23year old carpet fitter I had recently was talking about how he had managed to buy a 1 bed flat with his gf.
A lot of the young people I known who are builders or plumbers/electricians etc all own before they are 25, they are also married or living with their partner and maybe have children.
One guy dd knows has already paid off his mortgage at 30.
The places might not be forever home material but it is the first step.

Tax avoidance is also far easier for trades than those working in salaried professions.

Obviously, money laundering rules prevent it to some extent, but if you can use a proportion of in hand, cash payments for your daily living expenses, then you will be able to save for a deposit far quicker

@Oliversmumsarmy The property ladder doesn't exist any longer but of course its good to buy a small place if it works for you now rather than waiting to buy something that you may never afford.

DH has colleagues who earn 100k and are in late 20s to early 30s. they haven't bought largely because they can't afford to buy in the place they want. But I don't believe for a moment that they are disadvantaged compared to DH and myself since their earnings are clearly on an upward trajectory and in time, they could probably afford what they want rather than settling. They would just buy later and buy bigger.

I think its the people in the middle, who know their incomes wouldn't grow like the 100k crowd and who also don't have family support. All the people i went to uni with now have either family support or high income or both. Not all unis are created equal and a lot of people who choose to go to uni do so because they know their parents would support them as they embark on long academic careers. Certainly for many professions, you need parental support after you have left university or it will be hard. And if you have parental support, you are unlikely to be struggling to get on the property ladder either, or it wouldn't be so acute. The guy i know whose parents paid for uni and legal practice course also bought him a house (and they aren't even rich by north london standards).

The problem is people without resources pursuing careers in expensive cities and it being harder to do so when a generation ago, it was the norm.

@GreenlandTheMovie I don't know much about this but its so unfair if people who work in trades don't pay their taxes and use it for house deposit! Really disgusting.

HMRC's computer system Connect searches the Land Registry data so in theory if Bob The Builder buys a £350k house in Hemel Hempstead and his declared income for tax is only £20k then the tax office might well look into him. Also any trader wanting a mortgage will have to show their tax returns for at least 3 years and bank statements and will not get a mortgage if under declaring their profits. As most of them need a mortgage as will not be able to save £350k out of being paid in cash they would need tax returns and to have paid tax for that purpose.

I think you're underestimating Bob-the-builder's ability to launder money Xenia

May be but most people do need a mortgage to buy so must have declared profits to HMRC unless they are making massive profits on their work sufficient to save up for a home in cash alone.

If you're a builder you buy a cheap wreck and do it up yourself, that is your route up the property ladder
ditto anyone with lots of cash to clean up, buy a wreck and pay the builders cash

There is also the issue of many people not wanting a one-bedroom flat away from transport and from family and friends. There are cheaper properties around but you'll find that lots of couples want two bedrooms, or to be able to walk to the station, or to be near friends and family. The idea of sacrificing the above for a few years in order to get on the property ladder is not something many FTBs will entertain.

@SheepandCow - seems that you are only interested in good examples of public housing and bad examples of private rented housing. Slums in the UK are invariably in public housing- largely because there are a concentration of poor people and right to buy means only the worse properties are left. I grew up in public housing and much of my family are still there and so I absolutely recognise that. I’m not some guardian reader writing from my ivory tower.

As I said there is no reason private landlords would refuse to house families and/or disabled people per se. They’re mainly concerned that someone looks after the property and pays the rent. A lot of social landlords are that same for certain areas.

Private rented housing should definitely be part of the mix. As I said there are lots of advantages as well as disadvantages to each type of housing.

@hopingforonlychild London is different to the rest of the country though...prices there are just crazy. £400k for a flat sounds extortionate. Is this in a fancy area or are they all that price?
But £600k for a house is still a huge amount of money...it wouldn't be within reach for most people.
I live in a Scottish city and paid £95k for my 3 bed flat in 2016.

@ChochoCrazyCat Its in East Finchley, its zone 3 on the tube. I wouldn't call it fancy but its near good schools and 20 mins on the tube to central london. Its near very fancy area, there is a road called bishops avenue that is a 10 minute walk from where i live, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bishops_Avenue Homes on that street are up to £65 million. I can also walk to also less crazy but pretty fancy areas like Hampstead, Highgate and Muswell Hill where the likes of Hugh Grant and Kate Moss live.

DH grew up in north london nearby and he actually thought our area was poorer but it has actually gentrified a lot in recent years. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/11/finchley-wealth-tory-1980s

East Finchley has been gentrified for as long as I’ve known it. The main parade now calls itself a “village” and serves young professional couples who, as one shopper puts it, “move here because they can’t afford to live in Highgate”. Towards Hampstead Garden Suburb, the constituency starts to take in serious affluence and, on The Bishops Avenue, vast dwellings of jaw-dropping opulence, marble-clad and flanked with romanesque columns. Only a few miles further south, it switches to Victorian terraces punctuated by housing estates.

But you know what? There are pretty crap areas in East London where you wouldn't be able to get a flat for less than 400k either so whether its fancy doesn't seem to playy much of a role.

@ChochoCrazyCat all i can say is that its a lot cheaper than new york... but londoners also earn much less than new yorkers.

I just looked it up and the average price of a flat sold in London in 2018 was £421k. So i guess my flat is cheaper than average as i paid 392k in 2019.

@hopingforonlychild That seems fab (but not the price!). I've often wondered whether I made a mistake not moving to London after uni. I'm happy where I am but my friends who did go seem to have much more exciting lives and better careers.
But I knew I would never be able to afford to buy there and that was important to me, so I didn't go. Without serious parental help/very high salary it's a choice between live in a cool city but rent forever, or live in a more boring area and buy a house.

@ChochoCrazyCat I moved to London when I was 19 and loved it. Its very welcoming to foreigners. But i think the difference is that when I was choosing london, I wasn't really comparing it to other uk cities and towns, I was choosing between London and New York. And London seemed affordable as crazy as that sounds. It would be the same, i think for people from hong kong who can now move to the UK. They would be weighing their options- london against LA, Vancouver, Sydney, Singapore... London actually does quite well compared to those other cities in terms of housing costs and quality of living. I would not be able to afford to buy in New York or even Vancouver but i can in London.

I find it strange that this thread doesn't mention the foreign investors who buy up london property and let it sit empty. I think that is really horrible even as a foreigner.

YABU to hate all landlords.

YANBU to hate that he/she has been allowed to buy affordable housing under the right to buy scheme.

I would like to ask all these landlords: why do you think you have the right to have someone else pay for your pension via rent, when this inhibits your tenants ability to save for their own retirement?!

For a scientist you have a very poor logic. How is the landlord inhibiting your ability to save for your own retirement?
If your landlord sells your house today where would you live?
Who pays for repairs in your house? Windows, new boiler, roof etc you or your landlord?
We had our first flat at 40 years old 21 years ago. I don't remember being fast or easy then.
Unless you have an inheritance or live rent free I can't see how else you save enough for your own property.
Hating your landlord won't solve anything at all.

Not particularly a fan of BTL landlords and their effing 'portfolios'.
But, will make this point - which don't think has been.

The BTL market was kick-started by the '1986 Leasehold Reform Act', which for the first-time enabled landlords to get rid of tenants.
Before 1986 if you were able to rent an unfurnished place, you had a tenancy for life - hence nobody wanted to be a landlord (very difficult to get rid of tenants), so it was very difficult to find anywhere to rent (there were no such thing as 'letting agents' now found in every High St) which I was trying to do in 1970s London.

In addition there were rent controls. Tenants were often able to go to get any rent they'd agreed with the landlord, reduced by a 'rent control officer'.
So the upside - as a result of the 1986 Act, and the abolition of 'rent controls' - is that there is now a letting market, and anyone moving to a new city is (at a price) able to to rent a place.

I would like to ask all these landlords: why do you think you have the right to have someone else pay for your pension via rent, when this inhibits your tenants ability to save for their own retirement?!

Work multiple jobs (I had four at one point), stop going out, save on everything to the bone, rent a room in a cheap flat, and after a few years you can buy a place too. But you can't be picky about location - because we weren't. Family, friends, station, work, they can't dictate where you buy. We didn't just happen to win the money to buy a BTL - we worked, really really hard for it. Nobody is stopping you from doing the same.