To hate landlords?

[MsPeachh]

Last month, I had to move suddenly. I found the flat I’m in now, it had just been bought by my landlord and I’m the first person in after the former owner moved out. It’s an ex-council house that the owner had purchased under “right to buy” and now I have to pay a third of my salary to a private landlord for what was originally meant to be affordable housing.

I’m a scientist in my late twenties with good qualifications and I feel total despair that I might never be able to afford my own home, and I will be lining someone else’s pockets via rent for the rest of my life. Let alone what anyone in a position less fortunate than mine is supposed to do.

To make matters worse, I looked up my landlord’s info on Companies House and I discovered that they have 22 properties in my area! It’s a village on the outskirts of a town where lots of people move when they are ready to move out of the hustle and bustle and settle to raise kids. And more and more of these properties are being snapped up by this landlord. It makes me sick, honestly. I know a lot of people become landlords accidentally in later life due to remarrying etc and ending up with two houses between one couple, but this landlord sucking up 22 houses in such a small area disgusts me. I feel like I’m completely losing hope for the future of people my age and younger as house prices keep soaring and soaring.

AIBU?

For those saying it's the landlord who foots the Bill when something goes wrong

What if you have been a good tenant but your landlord does fuck all about the state of the property?? Bad enough that the estate agent has now suggested to the landlord they have the house inspected to make sure the cracks and mold are not some sort of structural problem??

Bad enough that the agent has told us they have considered writing to us to say they consider the house uninhabitable?

Landlords are mostly useless . There are a few good ones but not many. I am glad we leave this house soon.

Took the landlord years to sort the mold issues in the bathroom and kitchen but will not sort the children's bedroom so we have to bleach the wall on a regular basis.

Pretty grim really.

We also ended up homeless once when a different landlord didn't pay the mortgage and we got evicted with 10 days notice. Bastard.

Buying would also be more affordable for many people if they could get on the ladder: those privately renting spent 34% of their gross household income on rent, whereas those buying their home with a mortgage spent 18% of their household income on mortgage payments, according to ONS.

Why would anyone expect a tenant to feel grateful for repairs or maintenance? Not only is it an absolutely basic obligation by a landlord to their tenant, but as a landlord, the property is YOUR asset, not mine. Why on earth would a tenant foot the bill for repairs, maintenance or renovations?

Or you could turn the argument on its head: since living in our current home, we have added to the value of this property through decorating (permitted) and by revamping the garden. We did this in order to make a it a more pleasant place to live, but it has certainly added the value and saleability of the house. Should I ask my landlord for a slice of the pie if and when he decides to sell it?

@Trisolaris exactly. If I had to do it eg relocation I would chose to manage it as you have which is not how you make money.

It’s very clear that lots of LLs believe their tenants are paying just for the key to the door and anything else like repairs, maintenance, safety features, prompt service when there is an issue etc are all extras that the LL is “having to foot the bill” for. Wrong!! The tenant is paying for all those things. They’re all part of the package. If your mortgage costs more than what’s left after all those things that’s to it own doing. The tenant doesn’t exist to service you mortgage and nothing else.

@MsPeachh It really depends on the area. Many people tend to rent centrally and buy further out, they would spend more on transport/rail fares which isn't reflected in the ONS statement. Right now in London, the yield is very low, people seem to buy for capital appreciation which isn't guaranteed! And doesn't really help you if you only own 1 home. You should always check using a rent vs buy calculator.

@Smallsteps88 exactly. If it’s a “business” like they proclaim so loudly, it has overheads that need to be covered just like any other business!

These landlords complaining they have to pay for maintenance (on their asset!) is like if my workplace started complaining that they had to provide toilet paper and switch the lights on 🤣

I agree that it isn’t right to expect the rent to cover everything. If you can’t cover all the costs of owning two or more homes yourself then you should sell up rather than charging extortionate rents.

The market needs much more regulation, like it used to have.

It's a business which doesn't allow the same tax deductions as any other business. In which other business would the rules be changed so that you have to pay tax on profits BEFORE deducting your full mortgage interest? So higher rate taxpayers are paying tax on profits not being made, because they can only deduct tax at 25%. So expect property maintenance to get worse as the government squeezes more out of the cash cow rental sector.

If landlords consider themselves a business, they need to treat tenants like customers. Not lesser individuals
Yet we are currently being criticize for acting like a business when we are ultimately handling people's livelihood and we should care for the welfare of our tenants. You can't have it both ways.

We all know that there are bad landlord and bad tenants. I had tenants threatening to report me to the authorities for bad mould in the house. I knew it wasn't the house as there had never been issue with mould before and during a visit, we noticed they were drying clothes in very hot radiators, in a small and cramp room with the window close. That room was the worse. They wouldn't accept it was their lifestyle that was causing the issue.

They left and I had to pay much a lot to clean and redecorate. New tenants, 3 years later, not an inch of mould. Yet I'm sure they still believe I was a rubbish LL refusing to sort out a mould issue.

@GreenlandTheMovie

It's a business which doesn't allow the same tax deductions as any other business. In which other business would the rules be changed so that you have to pay tax on profits BEFORE deducting your full mortgage interest? So higher rate taxpayers are paying tax on profits not being made, because they can only deduct tax at 25%. So expect property maintenance to get worse as the government squeezes more out of the cash cow rental sector.

It's not quite the same as it any other business though is it.... For one thing it's an investment business, if I borrowed money to invest in stocks and shares I would not be able to deduct the cost of borrowing such that I paid a lower amount of tax on the profit. For another thing housing is a foundational human need, like healthcare, education, these are things which need to be properly regulated, they cannot be left to the whims of the market

I own a property which I have rented out for over 10 years. I have fixed any issue straight away and pay top wack for a management company to ensure somebody is on the end of the phone for them when they have any trouble.
We lived in a Reno job for ages as we couldn't afford much for our second house.
Our tenant hasn't paid us any rent for 7 months and has stopped responding to any correspondence so we are having to take him to court to get him out. He owes us over 8k be more like 11k by the end of this.
I think tenants have for more rights than landlords and it certainly isn't all sunshine and roses over on the landlord side.

It has got to be the absolute lowest form of “business” I've ever heard of though: take on a bunch of loans and have your tenants pay them off for you. Very noble 😂

It was their lifestyle that was causing the issue
What, you mean washing clothes and needing to dry them?
Should they change their lifestyle so that they don't need to wash and dry their clothes?

It certainly isn't all sunshine and roses over on the landlord side
Why choose to be a landlord then?
instead of holding onto that property you could have sold it to someone who wanted to live in it as their own home?

This thread is the perfect example of how landlords are seen in this country. Expected to act as a business when it comes to treating tenants as customers when it suits the tenant, but then act as social landlords when being treated as customers doesn't go in their favour any longer.

The level of bitterness is quite astoning.

@Yohoheaveho

It was their lifestyle that was causing the issue What, you mean washing clothes and needing to dry them? Should they change their lifestyle so that they don't need to wash and dry their clothes?

LOL. I have a clause in my lease that says “no drying laundry inside!” No tumble dryer provided, of course...

Our tenant hasn't paid us any rent for 7 months and has stopped responding to any correspondence so we are having to take him to court to get him out. He owes us over 8k be more like 11k by the end of this.

All investment carries risk. Did you not know this was a possibility when you decided to use this vehicle to your money?

@dontdisturbmenow
The issue with landlords who state they are a business is that often they don’t treat their tenants as customers. If they did, there wouldn’t be such an issue.

That means fixing problems within a reasonable timeframe.
Not exploiting tenants who don’t know their rights.
Etc

I don’t want it both ways. As I have said repeatedly here, I am an accidental landlord myself. I’ve also had terrible landlords. From the beginning I wanted to make sure my tenants did not have the type of experience I have had and would be treated with respect and dignity.

Treating tenants as customers doesn’t mean you give them everything they want always - I mean if my tenants decided they wanted a new kitchen I’m not paying for one but it does mean treating them a hell of a lot better than the general standard than is tolerated in the UK and would absolutely not be by any other business!

What, you mean washing clothes and needing to dry them?
Should they change their lifestyle so that they don't need to wash and dry their clothes?
Oh dear! Don't you know that drying wet clothes on hot radiators without ventilation is exactly how mould brews!

They had a dryer, but a condensation one which again requires windows opened. There was a the in whole to fit another one.

So yes 100% their fault.
Bookmark

but then act as social landlords when being treated as customers doesn't go in their favour any longer.

You’ve touched on this a couple of times but I’m not quite sure what you mean. How are you expected to act like a social landlord?

Yohoheaveho what you say depends entirely upon whether the business is run as a limited company or not.

Recent government tax changes have favoured limited company landlords, probably because that is where the Tory backers have invested their money.

So you as an individual investing in stocks and shares wouldn't be able to deduct your personal borrowing costs, but if you set up a business to do it then HMRC would facilitate this. And the find management company can obviously deduct mortgage interest on its premises, or for any other fixed or floating charges it has issued. So it's not a great comparison.

Now we know that isn't good for tenants - making conditions more favourable for large corporations who own multiple properties and run them to make profits is actually discouraged by the tax systems in other European countries.

And it's difficult for landlords to convert to Ltd companies due to CGT and stamp duty.

I already explained how heavy regulation in Scotland isn't doing tenants any favours - do you have any knowledge of what is going on there, or even of increased regulation in England over the past few years? Why should the UK property market be more heavily regulated than the German or Dutch rental markets? Much regulation is of course in breach of EU competition law, which is why good policy is achieved elsewhere through less-onerous-than-state-comouksion taxation policies - in the Netherlands, the tax deductions are reduced for a greater number of properties held, and larger landlords are mostly non profit housing associations.

I also get frustrated about this notion of "pridessiinal landlords". I'm a solicitor - you are not seriously telling me that if some cowboy with no O levels to his name sets up an off the shelf company with fancy logos, he immediately becomes a "professional" landlord?

@GreenlandTheMovie Why do you do it?

@dontdisturbmenow

*What, you mean washing clothes and needing to dry them? Should they change their lifestyle so that they don't need to wash and dry their clothes?* Oh dear! Don't you know that drying wet clothes on hot radiators without ventilation is exactly how mould brews!

They had a dryer, but a condensation one which again requires windows opened. There was a the in whole to fit another one.

So yes 100% their fault.
Bookmark

Ah yes this The advice my former flatmate and I were given to prevent mould and condensation.

Turn on the heating and leave the windows open! Don’t leave laundry drying

Lovely in winter. A great example of how tenants can save up for a deposit while having to have the heating on 24/7 which would go straight out the windows!

Btw, we didn’t do this and for anyone in this position unibond Aero 360 dehumidifiers (non-electric) are amazing for damp.