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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To hate landlords?

877 replies

MsPeachh · 22/11/2020 21:52

Last month, I had to move suddenly. I found the flat I’m in now, it had just been bought by my landlord and I’m the first person in after the former owner moved out. It’s an ex-council house that the owner had purchased under “right to buy” and now I have to pay a third of my salary to a private landlord for what was originally meant to be affordable housing.

I’m a scientist in my late twenties with good qualifications and I feel total despair that I might never be able to afford my own home, and I will be lining someone else’s pockets via rent for the rest of my life. Let alone what anyone in a position less fortunate than mine is supposed to do.

To make matters worse, I looked up my landlord’s info on Companies House and I discovered that they have 22 properties in my area! It’s a village on the outskirts of a town where lots of people move when they are ready to move out of the hustle and bustle and settle to raise kids. And more and more of these properties are being snapped up by this landlord. It makes me sick, honestly. I know a lot of people become landlords accidentally in later life due to remarrying etc and ending up with two houses between one couple, but this landlord sucking up 22 houses in such a small area disgusts me. I feel like I’m completely losing hope for the future of people my age and younger as house prices keep soaring and soaring.

AIBU?

OP posts:
MsPeachh · 23/11/2020 15:45

@itsadress

Kids are back now, joy 😜

Good luck @MsPeachh, at least you know not all homeowners think you need to try harder.

Enjoy! I’ve had a good response to this thread, hoping that it may open a few eyes and change the narrative about the “moaning, entitled, lazy youth of today” a bit.
OP posts:
hopingforonlychild · 23/11/2020 15:49

@MsPeachh your problem isn't a uniquely UK problem. In most of the developed world (and even countries like China), property is very expensive relative to wages. London isn't the most overpriced market compared to other world cities like Frankfurt, paris. My DH and I own a London flat in a nice part of Zone 3, we used to live in Berlin and we looked at what we can afford in Berlin in 2020...its barely better than what we can afford in London (and while Berlin has gentrified a lot, its hardly the most expensive city in Germany).

There are many reasons for this, and its too complex to distill down to a single post.We are long overdue for a crash, but the government keeps using low interest rates to prop up the property market.

My DH is very anti home ownership and would say that there is nothing wrong with renting (i was the one who pushed and insisted until we bought our flat). In some ways, buying at a historic high in 2019 may not have been the smartest financial move on my part but its our home now. At least if there is a crash, you would be in a good position to buy if you have been saving in your ISA.

MsPeachh · 23/11/2020 15:57

Thanks for your insight @hopingforonlychild ! It is a complex issue. Renting definitely has its benefits of course.

I would hate to see anyone in negative equity because of a crash, I just wish prices hadn’t been allowed to spiral out of control as they have done. It all seems to boil down to greed when I think about it.

OP posts:
hopingforonlychild · 23/11/2020 16:14

@MsPeachh property crashes are inevitable. my MIL managed to buy her house in London due to a crash, she bought it for 100k but the downside was her 1 bed flat went down by 50% in value, but she still sold it as she had paid back the mortgage and desperately needed a larger place for her 3 kids. I need to overpay my mortgage!

I wouldn't say it is greed. the reasons are often structural. Like in China, the housing crisis is much more serious than the UK, the prices are even more out of whack with earnings, and thats because you can't see it as 2 individuals buying an apartment. It is 1 family saving their whole lives to buy their son an apartment + son's earnings so that said son is eligible to marry a lady (who would never marry a man who isn't a home owner). Wife would then help pay back the mortgage. So yes the house prices are naturally insane.

This is thankfully not the situation in the UK.I don't actually think landlords are actually the main reason for high house prices. I think the main problem is low interest rates, income inequality, lack of housing supply and family help with deposits. Bank of Mom and Dad is one of the largest mortgage lenders in the country. If it was landlords, there would be an oversupply of rental accommodation in the UK and undersupply of homes for sale, and that isn't the case.

One thing I have always noticed on Mumsnet is that there is always a poster who would say- how can people afford a insert arbitrary figure house or flat, you can buy a stately home in insert random location for that. This fails to account for the fact that people have vastly different earning power/ level of family help. While the average person has grown progressively poorer, the top 1-5% hasn't and in fact has far more disposable income due to the falling prices of consumer goods .

Skibideebapbapbap · 23/11/2020 16:25

YANBU

Without a large deposit from family or inheritance there is no way I or most of my friends will be able to ever afford to save up due to the high rents in the area where we live.

I earn a decent salary but it just won't go far enough.

And don't tell me to move, because my job, my family, my friends, my daughters school are all here.

hopingforonlychild · 23/11/2020 16:30

also a big reason why a lot of older people went into becoming landlords was cos of lousy pensions. I believe blair encouraged it cos he thought it was a 'free way' of ensuring older people got some sort of passive income by using the equity in their residential homes and therefore the state wouldn't need to intervene. Alas it had some not so nice repercussions!

DynamoKev · 23/11/2020 18:14

Entitled, or just want the same opportunities as were afforded to previous generations?
Do you want the same shit working conditions too? Or only the good bits?
I do sympathise but if people will keep voting for shit governments nothing is likely to change.

dontdisturbmenow · 23/11/2020 18:21

Enjoy! I’ve had a good response to this thread, hoping that it may open a few eyes and change the narrative about the “moaning, entitled, lazy youth of today” a bit
Not really, more the opposite. It's been many 'I couldn't possibly do it' without much justification why others is similar circumstances can.

No explanation why in £1800 a month and £600 rent, there isn't enough left over to save.

I still believe that it comes down to lifestyle and priorities.

SheepandCow · 23/11/2020 18:38

@hopingforonlychild

also a big reason why a lot of older people went into becoming landlords was cos of lousy pensions. I believe blair encouraged it cos he thought it was a 'free way' of ensuring older people got some sort of passive income by using the equity in their residential homes and therefore the state wouldn't need to intervene. Alas it had some not so nice repercussions!
Blair was in it for himself. The Blairs own a multi million pound property empire.

He especially despised disabled people. His war on the disabled extended beyond starting to dismantle the disability benefits safety net.

He pushed for any old Tom, Dick, and Harry (including all kinds of crooks and fraudsters) to profiteer from the basic need for shelter.

He also very enthusiastically continued right to buy at a time when lots of social housing could've been saved.

Add in his support for freedom of movement. Fine in itself - but he did it at the same time as severely limiting housing availability for the poor and the disabled. With millions of new people to house you'd have expected the opposite.

Dreadful man.

DynamoKev · 23/11/2020 18:40

@SheepandCow
If you can resist posting on this thread about how much you hate Tony Blair, I'll resist posting about how much I hate Thatcher who is the real villain who started all this.

SheepandCow · 23/11/2020 18:46

Part of the problem is that people didn't/don't care about Londoners. What's happening now happened in London 20 years ago.

Also it only affected people on low incomes and the disabled at first. It's only now beginning to impact on the middle class.

And so it's only now, when it's starting to affect the rest of the country and the non disabled middle-class, that more people have begun to notice, care, and worry.

Had people spoken out about it back when it began, things might never have been allowed to progress to this stage. It might've been nipped in the bud.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/11/2020 18:46

Houses shouldn't be leashold. Ever. It's ridiculous

Especially sickening is the ruse spec builders are now pulling around exactly this - not just the principle of the thing, but the future payments they salivate over

And have their house prices been adjusted to allow for it? Have they hell

SheepandCow · 23/11/2020 18:56

[quote DynamoKev]@SheepandCow
If you can resist posting on this thread about how much you hate Tony Blair, I'll resist posting about how much I hate Thatcher who is the real villain who started all this.[/quote]
I do sometimes feel like I'm on a one woman mission when it comes to Blair. Sorry. I can't resist I'm afraid. His war on the disabled should never be forgotten.

However, there's room for more than one villain Grin

I agree that the Thatcher years did a lot of damage. But...Blair was arguably worse. By the time he got in, the dreadful consequences of right to buy were undeniable - but still at at stage where the damage could be limited. He chose to do the opposite. He made things worse!

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 23/11/2020 18:57

One reason buy-to-let spiralled was Gordon Brown’s raid on pension funds.
People lost trust in pensions, thought they’d better look after themselves instead, and bricks and mortar can’t melt away like money in funds can.

SheepandCow · 23/11/2020 19:01

Yes true. The Blair and Brown governments did so much damage.

People didn't have to invest in property though. They could've bought shares in pharmaceuticals, Astra Zeneca, for example.

JGACC · 23/11/2020 19:08

OP you are definitly not being unreasonable. It's absolutely insane. We are looking to buy and only can because we are living at home. We moved up north to save but I never managed to get a job that paid well so ended up moving back down to my parents. For the old peoplesaying we spend too much, we dont go out for dinner, I own literally one pair of work trousers I've had for 4 years, get a haircut once a year, don't go drinking. I bought the most expensive car I've ever had for 1800 last year...a kia picanto purely to try and reduce car fixing costs. Oh and I do extra part time marketing work while also studying for my CIM qualification.

There is no way we would buy a new house with their service charges that can double every 10 years and countless rules. A colleague bought one and is not even allowed a barbecue in the back garden. Agreed that with brexit, the environment, now job losses due to covid, uni fees and new houses with service charges it all looks very bleak. And I know I'm saying that from someone in an incredibly fortunate position who is buying with a partner and living at home. We are also fortunate that he is French and we are considering going there to buy to be honest. Even that's been taken away from most people :(

MsPeachh · 23/11/2020 19:33

@dontdisturbmenow

Enjoy! I’ve had a good response to this thread, hoping that it may open a few eyes and change the narrative about the “moaning, entitled, lazy youth of today” a bit Not really, more the opposite. It's been many 'I couldn't possibly do it' without much justification why others is similar circumstances can.

No explanation why in £1800 a month and £600 rent, there isn't enough left over to save.

I still believe that it comes down to lifestyle and priorities.

I’ve mentioned it before- I do save. About 20% of my income, and it’s not getting me there fast enough because house prices are going up year after year and the savings can’t catch up fast enough.
OP posts:
MsPeachh · 23/11/2020 19:41

@JGACC don’t tell the posters on here you’ve got a car... they’ll soon be telling you to walk and pull your shopping home on a donkey-driven cart if you ever want to buy! Grin

Our generation is crying out for change, and something to feel hopeful for in our futures!

OP posts:
goldopals · 23/11/2020 19:50

I don't like how some people or corporations own multitudes of houses to rent out. It's not fair and been drive up property values. However, please don't tar all landlords with the same brush. We own and rent out a unit which was initially bought to help out my parents during tough times (long story short).

MsPeachh · 23/11/2020 19:54

@SheepandCow

Yes true. The Blair and Brown governments did so much damage.

People didn't have to invest in property though. They could've bought shares in pharmaceuticals, Astra Zeneca, for example.

I firmly believe that housing is a fundamental right; a roof over your head and therefore should be affordable for everyone. Not an investment to be profited from! Thanks for your really interesting comments, @SheepandCow
OP posts:
Tubbytenbums · 23/11/2020 19:55

@Mybobowler

YANBU. Landlords are parasites and the older I get, the more firmly I believe this. I have spent tens of thousands of pounds paying off the mortgage of the person who owns my home. It's such a waste of my money - I hate it. Partner and I are in our early thirties, above average income, one child. We have no hope of buying a house.
THIS!!!!!!!!! I'm 47 and paid rent for the same house for 29 years. Could never get a mortgage. To make matters worse the landlord is a bullying prick that we are beholden to. I HATE LANDLORDS!
MsPeachh · 23/11/2020 19:59

@Tubbytenbums sorry to hear that!

I would like to ask all these landlords: why do you think you have the right to have someone else pay for your pension via rent, when this inhibits your tenants ability to save for their own retirement?!

OP posts:
BarryWhiteIsMyBrother · 23/11/2020 20:03

@ApplePie86

Sorry but YABVVVU

It was entirely your choice to rent the property and pay a third of your salary for the privilege.

If you don't want to rent then save up a modest 5% deposit and buy somewhere with a similar government scheme to previous owner.

Just as you have chosen your job, your landlord has possibly chosen to be a property owner/developer or whatever.

Just because they own multiple properties doesn't mean they haven't worked exceptionally hard to do this.

Very unreasonable to hate your landlord for this reason.

100% agree.
SheepandCow · 23/11/2020 20:14

I agree @MsPeachh

20mum · 23/11/2020 20:22

I do have the bones of an idea. The fourth way. Currently you a)buy, or b) rent privately. In both cases you have little flexibility and possibly get trapped in the wrong place or without means to pay.

Or c) you join the elite aristocracy of renters, by getting an artificially low rented council place with security of tenure for the rest of your days, no matter that you got it to house your large family, now all left, and/or at a time you were a low earner with no savings, but you are now rolling in money.
(The day housing benefit was invented should have been the last day council house tenancies existed, because that addresses the exact need for a certain size of home, and the exact reasonable rent in the area, and pays that only until circumstances of need or of income change. But housing benefit should be directed to the landlord, not given to tenants as an incentive for feckless behaviour)

I don't know enough about it, but apparently other countries do things differently and better. I think (only think) Singapore has some crossover system, with most property being State owned but only as it were as the ground landlord, so they are not interfering in the size and location of what people rent, and if or when they can move around. An advantage of a State ground landlord/ ultimate manager, would be they could mark the card of antisocial/problem occupants, who would have to go to the 'naughty' or the 'help' flats probably with security supervisors or welfare systems in place.

I think the current U.K. system, with 8 weeks' no-fault eviction, is understandable for some private landlords who might suddenly need to sell, and is also vital for them to get rid of tenants who are antisocial or otherwise problematic, without needing to give reasons or go to court. But there needs to be a system where some tenants with a proven 'perfect tenant' history can get access to some indefinite/lifelong rentals by institutions (pension funds etc.). Particularly for older people, but also for people with close family close by, or with children, especially SEN, settled in schools, the assurance that provided they don't blot their perfect tenant record, they won't need to uproot at short notice may be important.

(One possibility for certain private landlords who don't want to recover the homes for personal use, might be to donate them to the State/institutional investment landlord's pool of housing, in return for a guaranteed income and relief from risk, plus a promise to buy it from them at adjusted market rate if the capital is needed) 'Adjusted' would be a necessary compromise between the potential legal costs and difficulty of evicting and recovering vacant possession if contested, and the, usually, greater value of a vacant than a tenanted home.