Schools should close for 2 weeks after the Christmas mixing

[OverTheRainbow88]

I think that schools should remain closed for face to face teaching 2-3 weeks after the end of the period in which Boris will allow families to all mix.

I don’t want to be in a classroom with 30 different kids 5 times a day who’ve mixed inside with all different family members and friends.

I say online learning until mid Jan, if Boris will allow us all to mix at Christmas

Teachers have compared the PPE worn by dentists, GPs and hospital staff to their lack of PPE. Other posters have said their schools made scrubs and donated ‘science goggles’ to the NHS and are disappointed they’re not getting the same support in return.

Goading and scathing.
Why shouldn't school receive support? And no one has requested the same support

Schools were closed from March, for several months!

Goading

Healthcare workers didn’t sign up for a pandemic either, but we carried on working (most of us without any PPE initially). There was no talk of closing wards or acute inpatient units or staff lobbying for an extra long break when households could mix. We just got on with it.

Critical and goading

I’m a teacher in a state school in a deprived area and find many of these posts utterly bizarre. We are allowed to wear masks in the classroom. Many of the students do as well. We have hand sanitizer and cleaning spray which are topped up regularly, as well as disposable gloves, tissues and cleaning cloths which are replenished regularly. Tables are cleaned after every lesson and each year group bubble has their own set of equipment for lessons. Windows etc are kept open for ventilation purposes. I am no Tory voter (far from it!) but if your school is not allowing you to do any of this then it’s your SLT you should be blaming.

My objection is to wearing surgical gloves all day

I didn’t say I wanted it all day. You are making things up.

How often do teachers get sprayed in the face with blood, vomit, spit or drool? Genuinely interested.

Depends on the age of the children. Can be lots can be sporadic but it’s always a risk. It only takes the once...

I think Perspex screens on students’ desks, fogging machines and handheld thermometers are a good idea.

Thank you.

Maybe you need to ask your school
Already have. No funds

or the government to fund them though
I’ve written to my MP but it’s a bit tricky as I actually teach their child. I haven’t had a reply yet.

rather than complain on a forum?

So you are actually telling people not to post now? Wow. I’m glad we do as it has caught the attention of the DfE who actually posted on one of these threads in response.

Where have I been critical, goady or scathing?

A critical post:
1.But unfortunately your thread resulted in a lot of teachers complaining about going into work after Xmas mixing, and claiming it’s unfair the NHS are fully equipped with PPE, have the ability to reduce non essential services etc, while teachers are fully exposed to covid and at high risk.

some goady posts

1.I find it strange that so many teachers feel it’s unsafe to go into work, when so many other professionals worked throughout the pandemic (including in the beginning when even hospitals lacked appropriate PPE!) Maybe it’s because the schools were closed for so long, now they’re open teachers are experiencing risks too!

2.I think it’s inevitable some teachers will get covid and be off sick,

some scathing posts:

1. Why should teaching be any different?

2.Schools were closed from March, for several months!

@Angelil

Totally agree with you. Employers have the responsibility for the health and safety of their staff. Many schools are ensuring these measures are available. Some staff at ours have been shielding too. It’s not ok for basic measures and provisions not to be available.

I am no Tory voter (far from it!) but if your school is not allowing you to do any of this then it’s your SLT you should be blaming

Ok. So that’s two posters now who claim they wear masks in classrooms. Fair enough. Compared with the huge amount of other posts stating that they aren’t, coupled with the government guidance strongly advising against it, then it is clear that if the government would just change their wording, (which would cost them nothing) then this alone might make the world of difference.
I don’t blame SLT for not wanting to go against guidance because of the fear of parents suing the school. My school and many many others are still dealing with the fallout from the A Level exam debacle with parents suing schools rather than the government.
The government need to take responsibility here and lead by example.

Well I wear a mask while teaching but I'm in a school in Scotland and I'm expected to - random info from posters about what they can and can't do needs more background info before you can know whether that is "the norm" or not.

Angelli

What the pandemic showed me amongst many other things was that there is no cohesion when it comes to school, schools in a short radius of each other did entirely different provisions for their pupils and they were allowed too!

Some schools are woefully behind when it comes to tech, and all sorts of things.

Some schools are doing all they can to keep pupils and teachers safe, allowing uniform changes so they can keep warm and yet... Other schools are freaking out if pupils wear one item of clothing to keep warm that isn't regulation? In a fucking pandemic??

Our school manages it finances really well. We don't have money issues.
Other schools do.

There is no cohesion... No standard...

No, this Christmas mixing should be banned.

Children need to be in school. We do not need a knees-up for five days.

I’m honestly not sure how parents would sue the school for mask wearing. There is a very real threat of staff suing the school for not ensuring their safety. We have very strict H&S laws in this country. Those are towards the employees not the pupils. It’s not just about masks anyway is it, as people have pointed out there’s an issue with sanitiser etc some places. A quick skim of the guidance from 26/11 appears that it has changed tack somewhat. For the actual teachers having a hard time on here, please consider making a complaint with the support of your union if you haven’t. There is no justification for employers not even trying to supply basics. I’d be more than happy to provide larger quantities of sanitiser, soap, gloves etc (have already provided for my child as requested by school) and I’m sure many parents would feel the same if asked. I usually send tea and biscuits which wouldn’t be allowed now anyway!

My child had a nosebleed every single day for a time period, they always helped her at primary. I doubt it’s rare for primary staff to come into contact with bodily fluids

I’m honestly not sure how parents would sue the school for mask wearing.

I wasn’t sure how parents could sue a school over the A Level grades issue that the government screwed up on and yet left schools to deal with alone but there you go.

I’d be more than happy to provide larger quantities of sanitiser, soap, gloves etc (have already provided for my child as requested by school) and I’m sure many parents would feel the same if asked. I usually send tea and biscuits which wouldn’t be allowed now anyway!

Thank you. As a parent too, so would I. I provide whatever I am asked. Would be nice if we didn’t have to in this instance and the government stepped in.

If SLT can’t interpret the guidance properly then I would be seriously worried about their ability to hire competent teachers of English. There’s nothing in the wording preventing schools from doing these things. As for parents attempting to sue based on the wording, they would frankly be laughed out of court.

In short, why can’t senior leaders have the confidence to just use their common sense and act?

Parents accusing them of child abuse in public (as I have seen following a mask mandate on twitter) is probably also a good deterrent.

Heads have enough on their plate, without taking the flak for a policy the government should be responsible for.

I'm not asking for a jolly knees up at Christmas. Just to be able to isolate for long enough to spend time with my 92yo father who is in my support bubble but I actually can't see due to the risk of infection from school. There are no other family members to be his support bubble.

In 12 years I've had 1 day off sick, and even then required no cover as my class were doing a group activity and my fab TA's presence was enough. Worked throughout first lockdown with vulnerable/key worker children. Not whining about my age or my asthma and I honestly love my job.

Just want to not feel I killed him if my dad dies of Covid in January. We have NO FLEXIBILITY over holidays etc. EVER. Not dissing the holiday time we get (though please be aware we are not paid for all of it) just want a BIT of flexibility to spend time with my lovely dad after a rubbish year when he hasn't seen his wife since March as she's stuck in France.

I used to have sympathy for my kids teachers. After finally finishing this thread its really sad how little teachers care. My dd was off for under a week self isolation and her teacher literally told me it was too long. Its a miracle theres only been one case in dc school considering ive seen teachers hug each other and attending house parties with each other.

For the record i actually think 2wks extra is a good idea and should have been put in place at the start of term so childcare issues can be arranged

I hope that if we have snow this winter and schools run remote learning on those days (which they will - the ‘snow day’ will be a thing of the past), all parents will keep their children in to do the work as ‘children have missed too much school already’.
Or if this was to be all over by May and cheap term time holidays are on the horizon, that all parents wait until the school holidays as ‘children have missed too much school already’.

sherrystrull

If those posts seemed goading or critical to you then I fear my writing style is causing you to misinterpret my tone. I don’t mean to sound goading or critical.

I’m not against teachers having PPE. I’m worried expectations of its effectiveness may be unrealistic.
In hospital we were (eventually) all PPE trained and fitted for it, as if used incorrectly PPE can increase your risk of contracting covid (eg damp masks not changed frequently increase risk), cross-contamination is a risk with gloves (eg gloves need to be changed after touching every person or their belongings say picking up their book; or hands gelled instead).

Back in March my ward were told surgical masks were ineffective and we were banned from wearing them! FF3 masks were (and are) fitted to certain clinicians but reserved for clinical procedures with a high risk of bodily fluids spraying or for patients in the infectious stage of covid.
Visors the same, only used in a situation where the patient is covid positive or covid suspected and we may need to swab them, look in their mouth or restrain them (eg if they’re confused) or if they’re spitting or coughing. Now we can’t enter the building without a surgical mask, which goes to show how guidelines have changed! But gloves, visors and FF3 masks are still reserved for certain high risk procedures or close contact with covid-positive patients.
We’ve always had gloves and pinnies (all hospitals do) but during the peak we ran out and staff bought their own.

The point I’m trying to make is it took the NHS a long time to get PPE, even longer to get adequate supplies, and during that time a lot of us caught covid or were exposed and were fine. We saw it as a risk of the job, like when the ward is hit by norovirus and the staff catch it!

I hope schools do get adequate PPE and protection measures and risk assessments, but I don’t think closing them is a viable option.

‘How often do teachers get sprayed in the face with blood, vomit, spit or drool? Genuinely interested’

Depends on the age of the children. Can be lots can be sporadic but it’s always a risk. It only takes the once...

Then maybe it would be a good idea for teachers to keep a visor, gloves and spill kit to hand in case of nosebleeds, vomit spraying etc. One kit per classroom, replaced after use, shouldn’t cost the school a lot?

I’ve written to my MP but it’s a bit tricky as I actually teach their child. I haven’t had a reply yet.

I hope you get a reply and proper supplies soon.

‘rather than complain on a forum?’
So you are actually telling people not to post now? Wow. I’m glad we do as it has caught the attention of the DfE who actually posted on one of these threads in response

I wasn’t telling people not to post. My suggestion was directing all this energy to your school and government rather than complaining on a forum. I didn’t realise you’d already tried both. I have no problem with people venting on a forum but some of the accusations and ridicule aimed at others (with different views or alternative suggestions) are getting out of hand. There seems so much anger here!

A critical post: 1) But unfortunately your thread resulted in a lot of teachers complaining about going into work after Xmas mixing, and claiming it’s unfair the NHS are fully equipped with PPE, have the ability to reduce non essential services etc, while teachers are fully exposed to covid and at high risk

This was my direct reply to OP when she commented she was disturbed by the anti/NHS vibe running through her thread. I agreed with her and suggested why it was happening. Some posters were complaining the NHS have PPE and teachers don’t, earlier in the thread, OP was trying to shut down the anti/NHS comments.

I find it strange that so many teachers feel it’s unsafe to go into work, when so many other professionals worked throughout the pandemic (including in the beginning when even hospitals lacked appropriate PPE!) Maybe it’s because the schools were closed for so long, now they’re open teachers are experiencing risks too!

Not goady, just my thoughts on the situation. If roles had been reversed and schools had stayed open while the NHS shut down, I’d be nervous about returning to work on a ward without PPE, especially if teachers were fully equipped with it. It would feel unsafe!

I think it’s inevitable some teachers will get covid and be off sick

A simple fact. Many teachers will have had covid by now, just like many NHS staff and other keyworkers. Most of my team have had covid (positive antigen tests) and some of us didn’t even have symptoms. If you’re in a high risk group or over 70 I’d expect schools to give you paid leave or wfh like they do in the NHS. Don’t they?

Why should teaching be any different?

In what context? In that schools should remain open and measures taken to reduce risk?

Schools were closed from March, for several months!

Erm, weren’t they? At least closed to all children other than vulnerable and keyworkers’ children who had no family to home school them? Maybe some were fully open and I’ve got this wrong.

Another potential email for MPs. Some bits in bold might need amending depending on your situation.

Dear X

I am writing to you urgently because of the government's nonsensical policy around Christmas.

I have children in in a secondary/primary school which has had several cases of covid recently, including in their classes, therefore given the lack of mitigation measures in schools, I consider them to be at high risk of catching it. We know from the ONS data that secondary school pupils are the most infected subset of the population and that transmission in schools is rising.

We are not planning on seeing elderly relatives over the 5 day Christmas relaxation period because of this risk. Christmas falls one week after schools close and this would not be enough time from having been in school for the risk to be low enough to avoid spreading it to them.

We had been planning on waiting two weeks from the end of term and visiting them then, however, with the tiers of restrictions, it looks like this will not be allowed.

We are faced with the choice of seeing elderly relatives for Christmas at a time when we are more at risk of giving them covid, or not seeing them at all.

It seems absolutely baffling that the government would enact a policy that would encourage families with children to get together at a time when there is more risk of spread from children to old people, by banning this contact when there is less risk.

The obvious solution would be to allow schools to close a week early, or move online a week early, giving a clear two weeks 'quarantine' before Christmas day and therefore much less risk of the infection rates in schools spreading to elderly relatives, however the DfE have already stopped schools from doing this. We know that closing schools reduces the infection rate in school children from looking at the ONS random sampling data where there is a clear dip over half term.

Why is the government ignoring the obvious risks associated with their Christmas policy and blocking attempts to mitigate them? Please can you ask your colleagues at the DfE whether they accept the responsibility for the additional deaths this will cause?

I look forward to your response.

www.writetothem.com/ use this to write to your MP, they track whether you get a response.