Schools should close for 2 weeks after the Christmas mixing

[OverTheRainbow88]

I think that schools should remain closed for face to face teaching 2-3 weeks after the end of the period in which Boris will allow families to all mix.

I don’t want to be in a classroom with 30 different kids 5 times a day who’ve mixed inside with all different family members and friends.

I say online learning until mid Jan, if Boris will allow us all to mix at Christmas

I hope not, some of us have to work. It would be a nightmare if our team has to go back to WFH, we're so glad to be back together.

If taken with the line before I don’t think it’s ambiguous this is about teachers;

A lot of teachers don’t want to wear a mask because it makes communication pretty difficult. They are free to do so at our school.

You made a statement of fact to somebody else that they were wrong and that absolutely no schools have masks in the classroom, you were incorrect. I personally know of more than one.

Government guidance said ‘ Face coverings could have a negative impact on teaching and their use in the classroom should be avoided’. Should be avoided isn’t quite the same as stating must not be worn. There are also updated guidelines which now talk about PPE being used as part of a risk assessment and do not mention the above statement

You made a statement of fact to somebody else that they were wrong and that absolutely no schools have masks in the classroom, you were incorrect. I personally know of more than one.

You specifically wrote to me that more than one poster on this thread had said they specifically said they are allowed to wear masks in their classrooms and I am allowed to have written that this was not the case on this thread.

I’ll just repeat my earlier point that you ignored, that it should be the norm not the exception (yours is the only example so far and wasn’t stated after what I wrote-I’m not a psychic) and thank you for posting the government guidance that also backs up what I said, clearly for others to see.
You really are clutching at straws and I don’t know why. I think it is marvellous that your school is allowing masks (although I think it is downright negligent it is allowing assemblies etc) and I would just like the government to make it easier for other schools to follow suit.

*was not wasn’t stated

Teachers don't begrudge the NHS for their PPE or ability to reduce services, we are just asking for similar protection for ourselves

And I’ve explained why it won’t give you the protection you’re seeking. I don’t begrudge teachers PPE (and several teachers on this thread have said their school allows masks).

But I don’t agree with a 2 week break after the Xmas hols and reduced services.

I don't think anyone is complaining about NHS having full ppe. I posted earlier in the thread contrasting the measures the government has taken for the NHS whilst simultaneously making none for education staff who statistically are at least as likely to be infected, whils being told by the government and various ministers that schools are safe

Teachers have compared the PPE worn by dentists, GPs and hospital staff to their lack of PPE. Other posters have said their schools made scrubs and donated ‘science goggles’ to the NHS and are disappointed they’re not getting the same support in return.

I’ve RTFT, I suggest you read it too if you think I’m inventing the anti-NHS vibe.

‘Susanwouldntlikeit
I find it so dispiriting that there is yet another thread where teachers present themselves as martyrs and misrepresent the profession. I am a secondary teacher in more than one subject, see hundreds of children a week and want schools to remain open even though it is impossible to meet the impossible ‘Covid secure’ standard that dine on here seem to feel entitled to. Probably want their own unicorn too.
On my school we have a light touch on ‘Covid measures’ but the only teacher who had been positive was one who was paranoid about masks long before they were a thing. No-one objects if a child wears a mask in class but most don’t and I certainly don’t-I want to try to give kids a normal lesson to take their minds off the ridiculous hysteria elsewhere.
A few children are isolating for various reasons and we include them in lessons where they join his Zoom and I use my iPad for the meeting do they are not visible to other classmates but can participate/this takes seconds to set up and is not intrusive or disruptive.
No year groups have been sent home -SLT although far from perfect in other ways do not over-reach the advice -they keep children in school rather than taking the last option to send them home.
Education is too important to be abandoned because of the irrational expectations of a tiny minority of activists with an agenda.And to set themselves up as as exposed as NHS - just staggeringly deluded.’

Hmm, and you're a teacher... sounds like you're a mask denier as well. Ironically, the tone if your post is far more hysterical than any that I have read so far in this thread hmm

What an incredibly rude and dismissive response to an articulate and informative post (and from a teacher)!
I see nothing hysterical or ‘mask denying’. You don’t portray yourself or your profession very well here, by dismissing the post of a fellow teacher simply because you disagree!

Other posters have said their schools made scrubs and donated ‘science goggles’ to the NHS and are disappointed they’re not getting the same support in return.

I’ve RTFT, I suggest you read it too if you think I’m inventing the anti-NHS vibe.

Hilarious you are telling me to read the thread as I wrote hat about the science goggles . And the context of that is to prove there is no anti NHS vibe from teachers because we do things to help the NHS and gladly do so. To reiterate again (and again), all workforce’s should be able to expect basic protection. If some NHS staff are not getting that, I would support their right to talk about it and help if I could.

Teachers have compared the PPE worn by dentists, GPs and hospital staff to their lack of PPE. Other posters have said their schools made scrubs and donated ‘science goggles’ to the NHS and are disappointed they’re not getting the same support in return.

Indeed. Because when nurses assessed their risk and found it unacceptable, we supported them.

So when teachers assess their risk and find it unacceptable and can see what is going on in their own school, then it would be good to be supported too. Not have people tell us our own jobs or that we need to restrict people in the staffroom (duh) or that we can wear masks and ignoring the issue of the 30 maskless kids in the room.

It gets quite frustrating.

Universities pretty much have to, we've been told no face to face teaching for first 2 weeks of term.

Oh the irony. @RattleOfBars,

@Susanwouldntlikeit's post was

an 'incredibly rude and dismissive response to an articulate and informative post'

‘Do tell me which parts you consider ‘detritus’’

That you pretty much posted a retraction of some of your previous points, Or that you are intentional misinterpreting what teachers and others are posting.

Can you be less vague?
I’m not misinterpreting what teachers are posting. Quite a few have stated they wear masks to teach.

Where have I retracted my previous points?

I’ve said all along teachers should have PPE if that’s what they want. But realistically a surgical mask will not offer any significant protection if you have covid-positive students in a poorly ventilated, over-crowded room. If it makes the teacher feel safer then why not.

It would be more sensible to have windows and doors open, temperature test students (and staff) on arrival, make covid tests more accessible and ensure the teacher can stand several metres away to teach. All staff and students should anti-bac hands on entering a room, books and non-sanitisable items quarantined.

Visors and pinnies/overalls and goggles only protect you from bodily fluid splashes (eg if a student is close enough to cough or sneeze in your face and splatter you).

I don’t think there’s a magic solution. Shutting schools for 2 extra weeks will just deplete keyworkers and hospital staff.

I do think teachers and TAs over 70 or those with high risk conditions should be encouraged to work from home, or take a paid break, until a vaccine is available.

ensure the teacher can stand several metres away

😂😂

Another person who should listen more and speak less.

@RattleOfBars

‘Susanwouldntlikeit I find it so dispiriting that there is yet another thread where teachers present themselves as martyrs and misrepresent the profession. I am a secondary teacher in more than one subject, see hundreds of children a week and want schools to remain open even though it is impossible to meet the impossible ‘Covid secure’ standard that dine on here seem to feel entitled to. Probably want their own unicorn too. On my school we have a light touch on ‘Covid measures’ but the only teacher who had been positive was one who was paranoid about masks long before they were a thing. No-one objects if a child wears a mask in class but most don’t and I certainly don’t-I want to try to give kids a normal lesson to take their minds off the ridiculous hysteria elsewhere. A few children are isolating for various reasons and we include them in lessons where they join his Zoom and I use my iPad for the meeting do they are not visible to other classmates but can participate/this takes seconds to set up and is not intrusive or disruptive. No year groups have been sent home -SLT although far from perfect in other ways do not over-reach the advice -they keep children in school rather than taking the last option to send them home. Education is too important to be abandoned because of the irrational expectations of a tiny minority of activists with an agenda.And to set themselves up as as exposed as NHS - just staggeringly deluded.’

Hmm, and you're a teacher... sounds like you're a mask denier as well. Ironically, the tone if your post is far more hysterical than any that I have read so far in this thread hmm

What an incredibly rude and dismissive response to an articulate and informative post (and from a teacher)!
I see nothing hysterical or ‘mask denying’. You don’t portray yourself or your profession very well here, by dismissing the post of a fellow teacher simply because you disagree!

Well, comments such as teachers are 'martyrs' who want 'a magic unicorn' and the implication that they feel 'entitled' to safety measures seems pretty rude and hysterical to me. I prefer my articulate and informative responses to be based on a modicum of truth. HTH

RattleOfBars

You retracted and rewrote an entire post by changing your narrative.

It starts

Perhaps I should have said ‘hospital NHS staff and most NHS community teams’.

As for calling teachers martyrs because we would like a similar level of protection to others, is just yet more detritus.

But keep posting your brand of bullshit, but others will be along to call you out.

I clarified a previous post about NHS PPE because people starting giving examples of their dentists and GPs in full PPE, which differs to PPE worn by general hospital staff.
I did not ‘retract and re-write an entire post’. If I had you would be able to produce the examples side by side and point out the differences 😂

And I didn’t call teachers martyrs. I called people out for jumping on a poster and ridiculing her, because she merely expressed a different viewpoint.

Some of the nastiness and venom on this thread makes me wonder how many of you really are teachers, or if you’re simply here to goad, criticise and make scathing comments.

I’ve made plenty of suggestions re how to make teaching safer and explained why your desire for the same PPE we use in hospitals is unrealistic (and ineffective) in a school. Take visors for example, how likely are you to have bodily fluids splashed in your faces? Do you really expect schools to put up plastic barriers around your desk and provide surgical gloves instead of hand gel?

Given teachers are already wearing masks, they just need to add a plastic pinny to bring their PPE up to hospital spec.

Do you really expect schools to put up plastic barriers around your desk and provide surgical gloves instead of hand gel?

I’ve had to resort to buying my own surgical gloves but then teachers are used to spending their own money to make the lives of their pupils better due to lack of fundingbecause my hands have gone red raw and really hurt, from having to clean 34 keyboards, mice, monitors and work surfaces after every lesson (7 times a day including Form time) so yes, it would be nice if schools had the funding to provide this for me. The cleaning products provided out of the schools existing budget even specifically state not to get into contact with skin. That’s not too much to ask is it?

(And I had to deal with a massive nose bleed today that did spurt out when the student spoke so please rethink that ‘bodily fluid’ comment.)

My DH work works in a private school with lots of money and has perspex screens on every desk to protect the teacher and uses those hand held thermometers when all children enter the school. He also has fogging machines that clean the whole school regularly. It might not protect against all instances but it’s better than nothing. Would be lovely if the government would fund this (as opposed to the billions in contracts they have given their friends) rather than giving schools absolutely NO extra funding AT ALL.

ChloeDecker

also the vomiting, spitting, drooling etc.

But then rattle has already made up their mind about this.

@LadyPenelope68

As a teacher I totally agree!! I bet the majority of parents won’t agree though!

I’m a teacher and I disagree! However I’m in Ireland and our numbers are nowhere near as high as the UK. Seemingly we’re currently the second lowest for rate of infection in the EU at the moment. Hi don’t ever want to go back to working from home and distance learning. It’s a PITA!

@RattleOfBars

Some of the nastiness and venom on this thread makes me wonder how many of you really are teachers, or if you’re simply here to goad, criticise and make scathing comments.

Can you not see how your comments are absolutely these things?

I've had children sneeze on me, cough in my face, sneeze on a jumper and pass it to me, suck pencils and equipment that I then pick up.

Sensible to use gloves for cleaning and sanitising, I’m surprised these aren’t supplied already. My objection is to wearing surgical gloves all day, even NHS staff are only allowed to wear them for direct contact (with patient, bodily fluids or for cleaning) as constant glove wearing reduces hand washing.

How often do teachers get sprayed in the face with blood, vomit, spit or drool? Genuinely interested.

I think Perspex screens on students’ desks, fogging machines and handheld thermometers are a good idea. Maybe you need to ask your school or the government to fund them though, rather than complain on a forum?

Can you not see how your comments are absolutely these things?

Where have I been critical, goady or scathing?

Some of the nastiness and venom on this thread makes me wonder how many of you really are teachers, or if you’re simply here to goad, criticise and make scathing comments.*

Goading