Schools should close for 2 weeks after the Christmas mixing

[OverTheRainbow88]

I think that schools should remain closed for face to face teaching 2-3 weeks after the end of the period in which Boris will allow families to all mix.

I don’t want to be in a classroom with 30 different kids 5 times a day who’ve mixed inside with all different family members and friends.

I say online learning until mid Jan, if Boris will allow us all to mix at Christmas

However, I find the anti-NHS narrative running through this thread really disturbing. So many teachers have basically said 'what the doctors are doing isn't so extraordinary' that I think there must be some kind of agenda being pushed by someone, which has been repeated until individual teachers start to believe the rhetoric and shift their feeling of grievance onto the NHS.

This is unfair. I have the upmost respect, admiration and appreciation for all the NHS workers and the NHS itself.

However, I find the anti-NHS narrative running through this thread really disturbing.

Seriously?! Couldn’t be further from the truth and even often the other way round.
Especially when teachers have to put up with threads started by NHS workers like this one (see attachment).

Teachers and school staff donated equipment to the NHS, such as their Science lesson goggles, made scrubs for them and visors and masks for them when they needed it. Even going on threads to defend NHS workers during the first lockdown.

All they are asking for in return is to ask for the same acknowledgment that they need to be protected too.

@ancientgran

I’m just pointing out surgical masks, pinnies and gloves won’t protect the TEACHER or TA much. Much being a very important word. As a well known retailer tells us, "every little helps."

That may be true, but that does not mean that there are no measures possible that could protect the teacher or TA more than the current practices with almost no mitigation. Fewer people/more distance inside, the best possible ventilation (also acknowledging where this is inadequate), and truthful tracking of the (mostly rising) evidence actually in schools might be a better route to improvement. I mean, if we've been strictly warned off forming groups of more than 6 inside, for several months, in nearly all other circumstances, how can that add up?

From another thread:

Please join me in emailing your MPs (again). From another thread a suggested email to amend and improve (and to correct the grammar of, English teachers) to save time.

Dear X

I am writing to you because I am increasingly alarmed about the worsening situation in secondary schools in England.

Last week's ONS random sampling data showed that the infection rate in secondary school children continues to increase at a worrying rate, after a short dip at half term which confirms that the transmission in this group of children is related to school attendance. They are the most infected subset of the population, with an estimated 1 in 50 students affected.
The latest attendance figures show that nearly 900,000 pupils were absent from school for covid reasons last Thursday. 73% of secondary schools had isolating pupils due to contact with cases within the school. Again, this represents a rapidly worsening picture, with only 64% of secondary schools affected the Thursday before. 1% of schools are completely closed, this was 0.4% the previous week.

It appears that any efforts to control the transmission of covid within secondary schools is not working. The change from sending home full bubbles when there area positive cases to only sending home close contacts is not breaking the chain of transmission and causing further cases, and more pupils to be sent home. Some children have spent many weeks in quarantine since September, unable to access face-to-face teaching and not even allowed to leave the house. This should be a national scandal, and it is inexplicable that it is not headline news as it was when it was university students that were affected.

The DfE response to these worrying figures, rather than recognising the need to improve measures to control the spread, is to suggest that the issue is that schools are sending home too many pupils. Given the increasing infection rates, sending home fewer pupils than currently would seem to be an extremely counter-productive and would contribute to increased spread.

There is nothing to suggest that the situation will improve, and everything to suggest that it will worsen over the next 3 weeks. More schools will have to close due to lack of staffing, and more pupils will be trapped at home quarantining, some for the Christmas period.

That secondary school pupils are becoming increasingly infected with covid should be a national concern given the latest news that Christmas will bring more household mingling. These children will be visiting elderly relatives, indoors, for extended periods, and there will be tragic consequences. The government will be held responsible for this, particularly given that they have overturned some schools' decisions to close early to provide a safety buffer for families before Christmas.

Please could you raise with your colleague Gavin Williamson, and the DfE as a matter of urgency the issue of inadequate mitigation measures in secondary schools which is leading to uncontrolled transmission of covid, and nearly a million students out of school?

The use of masks in classrooms is currently 'to be avoided' in the school guidance, due to potential effects on teaching and learning. This should now be balanced against the huge disruption to teaching and learning due to pupils and teachers being unable to attend school.

Mass testing in schools should be a priority. We know that children are more likely to be asymptomatic or have symptoms which do not currently trigger a test. As a result they are in school spreading covid, which will then affect teachers and be taken back to the community. Instead of isolating only close contacts the entire bubble should be tested when there is a positive case to identify all infected pupils.

Funding should be given to schools to improve ventilation in classrooms, as has been done in other countries.

The position of clinically extremely vulnerable teachers and children, and those who have vulnerable members of their household should be reconsidered. Forcing them to work or study in an environment which is obviously not safe after lockdown is completely unacceptable, and I note that you and your colleagues are not expected to put yourselves and your families at risk in this way.

Please note that I understand that keeping schools open is a priority for the government, but they are currently failing in this. Saying that schools will be kept open is not enough, swift action needs to be taken before the system collapses as is happening in Hull.

I look forward to your response,
Kind regards...

Use this website to email your MP www.writetothem.com/
If you email directly, you need to make sure you include your address to prove you're a constituent.

@noblegiraffe

Thank you, I have just sent it to our local MP.

We’ve now moved to tier 3 so seems ever more mad we can mix at Christmas then return as normal to school!

Over time measures have been put in place to improve safety for NHS staff. Billions spent on ppe etc. Every decision the government has made has made since the summer has increased infection rates at school. The NHS staff get weekly tests to try and reduce infections at hospitals. Schools get no testing or extra measures

No extra measures? Schools were closed from March, for several months! While NHS staff carried on working without any PPE or ‘extra measures’. It took time for those to be put in place, and even now it’s very patient-focused rather than about staff safety!

And on my ward we don’t get ‘weekly tests’ (or any tests unless symptomatic). Only some wards routinely test staff eg cancer wards where patients are immuno-compromised.

@noblegiraffe thank you for that, are the stats still up to date? I am happy to send to my MP. I feel this thread has become very negative with nobody actually listening and appreciating other peoples’ experience. We are very much further on in our knowledge of covid since the PPE problems. If you remember we were told covid was not airborne, it was caught from contact, but now it appears it is actually airborne and the primary method of contracting it is through aerosols. Things have changed, we know more about what is likely to work, we have many scientific experts who should be advising though. I think it’s also important to keep in mind that those claiming to be NHS/ teachers are not necessarily who they say. Divide and conquer is definitely a strategy used in the past...

So how come she had scrubs, gloves, apron, mask and visor?

Maybe she’s clinically vulnerable and purchased her own PPE?

Maybe she hadn’t read your notes and didn’t realise what sort of examination you needed.

Or maybe she changes her gloves, mask, visor and gown between patients to prevent any accidental cross contamination?

Yes, Bungle, those figures are up to date.

Once more, loudly for the cheap seats

Schools were not closed for 6 months.

Schools were closed from March, for several months! While NHS staff carried on working without any PPE or ‘extra measures’

Easy now. Schools were not closed-they never were. They were open to vulnerable children and keyworker children (you know, so NHS workers could go to work) and later on from June, more year groups.
I think it’s clear what your viewpoint on teachers are.

And if it’s ably communication- do you think clinicians remove their face masks to speak to patients?

Clinicians aren't teaching phonics where it is beneficial to see the speaker talking as well as hear them. They are also not teaching lip readers for several hours a day.

teachers are not wearing PPE because they are not allowed to

I agree OP
I know that would be difficult for those who work but our school and others in the area offered placements for those in need of them
Uni's are having a quarentine period before they go home, I genuinely believe to avoid a huge their spike they need to stay home until the end of January
Our school has been ridiculous, year groups in and out like mad.

@Raindropsonrosesand

walksen your suggestions for increased testing in schools, vaccination of teachers, greater transparency of stats are sound. Totally with you on those, and happy to add my voice to those requests.

However, I find the anti-NHS narrative running through this thread really disturbing. So many teachers have basically said 'what the doctors are doing isn't so extraordinary' that I think there must be some kind of agenda being pushed by someone, which has been repeated until individual teachers start to believe the rhetoric and shift their feeling of grievance onto the NHS. Not sure who is pushing it, maybe unethical government advisors trying to divert criticism? Or unions pushing their members' interests with laser focus/at any cost?

I'm neither a health care professional nor a teacher. I do have many friends who are both, and have spoken to them throughout the pandemic, and have a lot of respect for what they have done - in both professions.

It's not a contest. And it's not zero-sum. Doctors having access to appropriate PPE when treating patients who have tested positive; being tested regularly to prevent them spreading covid (given that they are told to keep working with symptoms); cancelling non-urgent operations to keep capacity for an expected influx of critically ill patients... None of these things have any bearing on the very different risks in schools and what can be done to mitigate those.

I'm going to write to my MP to ask for better publication of stats, regular testing in schools in areas with more cases, adding teachers to the vaccination list. I'm against closing the schools: I don't think that's the right solution.

Teachers - please stop and think about the rhetoric you're hearing. And focus on the positive changes you want introduced, rather than divisive negativity.

I have a lot of school staff friends and read a lot of school covid threads. I have never seen anyone in education speak badly about the nhs. Honestly we have massive respect for people who work within the nhs.

I feel like your reason for posting this is to imply it's there and sow the seeds of division when actually it's not there at all.

@ChloeDecker

Schools were closed from March, for several months! While NHS staff carried on working without any PPE or ‘extra measures’

Easy now. Schools were not closed-they never were. They were open to vulnerable children and keyworker children (you know, so NHS workers could go to work) and later on from June, more year groups.
I think it’s clear what your viewpoint on teachers are.

Actually to play devils advocate our secondary was shut completely as they sent a very emotionally persuasive letter to appeal for all children to stay away, to be left at home or with relatives. Other schools had a large percentage in. Schools are all very individual and set their own risk assessment and rules. That is I guess why we need to appeal to our MPs for the government to provide guidance to SLT regarding safety

While NHS staff carried on working without any PPE or ‘extra measures’
I must have imagined my GP and physio moving to phone call appointments, and my dentist being completely shut.

It’s saddened me how this thread has become a who’s got it worse NHS or schools competition.

That wasn’t the purpose of this thread as said earlier I couldn’t imagine the U.K. without our wonderful NHS and am so thankful and grateful to all those who work for the NHS; and have a great admiration for them.

This thread is about schools and how mixing over Christmas will impact them.

@noblegiraffe. Thank you for sharing your email, I have sent it to our local MP. I got a response saying they’ll rely within 6-8 weeks.

I got a response saying they’ll rely within 6-8 weeks.

When mine finally replied to my detailed and heartfelt letter, it was a short generic something along the lines of 'I'll pass on the fact you' re worried about schools'

I'm going to write again to point out this time my child now has Covid but hey ho let's just let schools carry on. Nothing to see here.

While NHS staff carried on working without any PPE or ‘extra measures’ I must have imagined my GP and physio moving to phone call appointments, and my dentist being completely shut

Perhaps I should have said ‘hospital NHS staff and most NHS community teams’.
Yes lots of GPs and physios switched to phone call appointments for non-urgent problems. To protect their patients as much as staff (many people attending such appointments are over 70 or in high risks groups). Non urgent surgery was cancelled to make space for covid patients or emergency surgery. Lots of NHS staff were re-deployed to areas of higher need eg those in outpatient clinics were moved to inpatient wards.
GPs and dentists were still available face to face for emergency consultations, A&E was still open, so was MAU and minor injuries and most hospitals wards including inpatient psychiatric units and crisis teams. Ward clerks and receptionists and cleaners carried on working, as did healthcare assistants, nurses doctors, physios, occupational therapists, speech and language therapists.

I have a lot of respect for teachers, but I think expecting to get the same PPE and extra measures is unrealistic. NHS staff aren’t just wearing PPE to protect ourselves, we’re wearing it to protect our patients.

RattleOfBars

You should write fiction professionally because you are really good at making stuff up.

@RattleOfBars

You could start your own thread about the NHS?

I have a lot of respect for teachers, but I think expecting to get the same PPE and extra measures is unrealistic.

I suppose at least you have finally admitted that teachers and school staff don’t need to be protected in their place of work. Everyone can read that now.

NHS staff aren’t just wearing PPE to protect ourselves, we’re wearing it to protect our patients.

And teachers just teach in a vacuum!?

Actually to play devils advocate our secondary was shut completely as they sent a very emotionally persuasive letter to appeal for all children to stay away, to be left at home or with relatives. Other schools had a large percentage in.

They may have written that at the start but they would have had children in at some point and the teachers (including you if you are a teacher) would have still been teaching them. And they still would have had Year 10 and 12 physically in if secondary and Reception, Year 1 and Year 6 if Primary. To write an inflammatory blanket statement that Schools closed is just plain wrong and no one can play devils advocate on that fact, surely?

And appealing to the government is exactly what teachers and support staff are doing.

@RattleOfBars

Perhaps I should have said ‘hospital NHS staff and most NHS community teams’.

Alternatively you could have not put some much detritus in your post and hoped that you wouldn't have been picked up on it.