Who should pay for septic tank upgrade?

[harpygoducky]

In the middle of buying a house and specialist survey has flagged that the septic tank does not pass the regulations that came into force this year. Sellers do not want to do the upgrade work themselves, and will not agree a price reduction for us to do it. We do not want to buy a house with an illegal septic tank and feel like they should sort this out pre completion, and we feel even going 50/50 is unfair as by law they should have done this already.
Votes please!

YABU- Buyers should pay
YANBU- Sellers should pay

Whoever wants the sale more will pay. Either the buyers can wait for another buyer or the sellers can find something else. Its not fair but if you really want the house and can still afford the house I would go ahead.

As others have said, get your solicitor involved, if its discharging to surface water then as of 1 Jan 2020 this is illegal and can result in a rather large fine and the property cannot be sold in this condition.

I don’t really blame them. If you buy the house are you really going to put a new septic tank in when there is presumably a perfectly fine one in situ?

I say this owning an old Georgian house there is no way I would be digging around trying to sort out a septic tank unless I seriously had to. Absolutely no way!

Are you sure it's illegal rather than not up to date with current guidelines?
If it's the former I'd suggest 50:50, other buyers will raise the same issue. If it's the latter p, leave it

Good point @TwoLeftSocksWithHoles and @kforcake. Is it actually illegal for an existing septic tank, or would it be illegal if it was installed now? Most regulations of this kind are not applied retrospectively. So it may be that it's working perfectly ok and doesn't need to be upgraded imminently. In which case no one needs to pay.

Forgive me but you are whinging. You found a house you want, the sellers don't care who they sell it to, only you can decide to buy it and pay to improve the tank or keep looking for another house. The sellers can just stay put until another buyer comes along. You wanting to move out of your mil's isn't going to bother the seller. If there is nothing else within that budget in that area it's a sellers market and they call the shots.

Regulations change all the time. Most people have installations in their home that would be up to scratch now.

Presumably the issue with regulation change for the septic tank is that the company won't empty it unless it's upgraded?

Depends how much you want the house?

1. - get a quote for replacement and negotiate on house price

2.- ask the current owner to empty the septic tank prior to completion and ask for proof and then you have a good while before it will need replacement

Does it discharge to surface water as other pp's have already asked? If it discharges ti ground, then it is ok. There has been a change in regulations, but only if it discharges to surface water or a stream etc.
That said, if they won't reduce the price or get it done, you either walk away or accept the situation.

If there's nothing else on the market in your budget, was this house "cheap" at the price? If so this sort of thing is probably why. Generally speaking there's no such thing as a "bargain", and if you think you are getting one there's usually something like this.

Is it an illegal tank? Because I thought generally with regulations they were for new tanks, you don’t have to do stuff to existing tanks?

I’m sure the sellers would feel it was unfair to pay for something they don’t want or need if it works fine and they’d get no benefit from. I think you should be paying but by all means try negotiating l

I have a cesspit - in fact so do all my neighbours. Our village isn't on mains drainage. No one has been upgrading their cesspits - I didn't even know where were new regs.
Building regs change all the time - electrics & insulation especially. Just because the cesspit doesn't match the new regs doesn't mean a) it's illegal or b) anything has to be done to make it safe.

The regs probably are more of a requirement for new cesspits being fitted. Check with your surveyor or even better with your local council planning department.

Nobody has to do this. Nobody polices this. Our septic tank is 25 years old and so will undoubtedly not pass newer regulations . I will not be changing it and the run off is into our woodland so will never affect anyone else.

In other words don't panic - the surveyor is doing what surveyors do - covering his back.

Phone the Council or the Water supplier on Monday.

It doesn't really matter who's right. If you want the house and they won't budge you have to pay. If they want to sell to you more than you want to buy they'll have to pay. It depends if you're ready to walk away and if they're ready to let you.

Yes, I agree it's unlikely to be illegal just because it doesn't meet the current standard. The law doesn't generally inflict £1000s of cost on home owners to bring things up to the standard required of a new home.

@anniegun

Nobody has to do this. Nobody polices this. Our septic tank is 25 years old and so will undoubtedly not pass newer regulations . I will not be changing it and the run off is into our woodland so will never affect anyone else.

This! Did you hear of mass septic tank replacements when the new regulations came into force? No, you didn't.

How much money are we talking to replace/repair it?

It depends why it’s illegal. If the drainfield needs replacing you could end up with sewage backing up and blockages.

Ours failed because the pipe sizes have changed and the filtered water discharges into a farmers field. Our seller reduced price for half the cost of replacement.

Surely they will have the same issue with anyone who has a survey done

I think OP said this was a specialist survey - so maybe the vendors were hoping they wouldn't bother with one?

For me it would depend on the cost, but this doesn't sound like a cheap job so yes, I'd probably walk

Well a quick Google says that if it discharges surface water it has to be upgraded before sale.
How much is it to replace?

It is illegal, as it discharges to surface water and therefore should have been upgraded to a sewage treatment system by January 2020. The law was actually changed in 2015 but there was a 5 year grace period to allow septic tank owners to make the changes. We haven’t had any quotes yet but I believe it will be about £10-15k to sort.
To answer the pp who asked if the house was “cheap” to start with, no it wasn’t. We are paying a good and fair price. We wouldn’t renegotiate on anything else the survey flagged up (eg that the boiler will most likely need replacing) because that is all stuff you expect in a house purchase. But this is a huge and unexpected expense, for something that in the eyes of the law they should have done already.
To the person who said I was whinging- I can hear myself doing it too! But it does feel unfair!!

And if that is the rule, I would imagine it will be a conveyancing equity as well so sellers will meet it on every buyer.

Last year I bought a house and it was the mortgage company that said they couldn’t give me a mortgage because the house had woodworm. I told my solicitor who contacted the seller but they didn’t want to spend the £600 to have it treated. So I basically said to them if I can’t get a mortgage with it untreated it’s unlikely anyone will get a mortgage for it if I walked away, I said I was willing to compromise and pay half of it if they’d pay half. So I contacted the specialist and explained the situation and they just invoiced us both for the work half each.

OP. Post in legal and see if they can actually sell without it being done.

Will it affect your mortgage? I’m aware of friends recently having to pull out due to sceptic tank needing replacement and it caused an issue with the mortgage offer? I don’t know why it did - there could have been more issues that I’m not aware of though!