Who should pay for septic tank upgrade?

[harpygoducky]

In the middle of buying a house and specialist survey has flagged that the septic tank does not pass the regulations that came into force this year. Sellers do not want to do the upgrade work themselves, and will not agree a price reduction for us to do it. We do not want to buy a house with an illegal septic tank and feel like they should sort this out pre completion, and we feel even going 50/50 is unfair as by law they should have done this already.
Votes please!

YABU- Buyers should pay
YANBU- Sellers should pay

[LeroyJenkinssss]

Ah I was going to mention the sewage treatment unit. We bought just before the regulations changed and had no end of problems with the old septic tank. We changed to a sewage treatment unit and it is wonderful! I’d be cautious about letting them decide because they may undersize to get it cheaper.

[RhymesWithOrange]

@harpygoducky

It is illegal, as it discharges to surface water and therefore should have been upgraded to a sewage treatment system by January 2020. The law was actually changed in 2015 but there was a 5 year grace period to allow septic tank owners to make the changes. We haven’t had any quotes yet but I believe it will be about £10-15k to sort.
To answer the pp who asked if the house was “cheap” to start with, no it wasn’t. We are paying a good and fair price. We wouldn’t renegotiate on anything else the survey flagged up (eg that the boiler will most likely need replacing) because that is all stuff you expect in a house purchase. But this is a huge and unexpected expense, for something that in the eyes of the law they should have done already.
To the person who said I was whinging- I can hear myself doing it too! But it does feel unfair!!

In this case you should walk away unless you're happy to suck up the cost.

[Oreservoir]

@LeroyJenkinssss they shouldn’t undersize if they work on the amount of bedrooms. But yes definitely check.

[ItWasTheBestOfTimes]

DP owns a sewage treatment plant/septic tank engineering company, you are correct that it needs to be upgraded as part of the sale. I agree with PP that if the seller sorts this themselves then it would be a good idea to review the proposed works to make sure they fit the correct size plant for the number of people living in your home.

[Scrunchcake]

I agree with several PPs saying that rules like these aren't usually applied to existing systems. But for septic tanks going into surface water that's exactly what's happened - they apply retrospectively. Do you know whether your solicitor and their estate agent are aware of the law on this?

[BuggerationFlavouredCrisps]

Tell them you’re dropping your offer by £15k to cover the cost of replacing the system and see what they say.

They know you are committed to buying the property so they’re not expecting you to pull out, so call their bluff.

[fuzzyduck1]

I’m guessing the septic tank was upto regulations when it was installed so it’s hardly illegal.
If the regulations are the same as most it’s only until you start altering the installation that you have to make it compliant with current regulations.
So it’s upto you if they don’t want to pay for the work to be done then you either buy it knowing it needs to be done or walk away.

[mcmooberry]

They should definitely pay, they have had 5 years to sort it out! Or reduce the price by 10-15K, how annoying for you!

[harpygoducky]

@fuzzyduck1

I’m guessing the septic tank was upto regulations when it was installed so it’s hardly illegal.
If the regulations are the same as most it’s only until you start altering the installation that you have to make it compliant with current regulations.
So it’s upto you if they don’t want to pay for the work to be done then you either buy it knowing it needs to be done or walk away.

But the regulations have changed, so yes it is now illegal. Home owners have had 5 years notice to make necessary changes

[fuzzyduck1]

Check the wiring in the house if it’s red and black and not brown and blue (dam you EU) then the wiring isn’t upto latest regulations would expect them to rewire the house or give you a reduction?
Would you?
I don’t think so.

[notapizzaeater]

Do they realise they should have already done it ? I'd be pointing out that any buyers survey will pick this up.

[AlwaysLatte]

This issue is going to come up with other buyers if you walk away, so I think they're trying it on. I think if you seriously threaten to walk away then they will do something.

[MythsandSparkles]

If they can’t sell it without upgrading then they can’t sell to you or anyone else - it might take a conversation between your solicitors and theirs to have this pointed out though.

Would your mortgage company even honour the mortgage on the property given it’s not up to regs?

[TwoLeftSocksWithHoles]

Ah now you have explained that - it is illegal! So I would think any mortgage offer may be compromised too until the work has been done.

If the estate agent wasn't aware then I would make sure they do know now. If they did know then they should have told you at the start but that's all water under the bridge now ( or going into surface water) .

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Home owners have had 5 years notice to make necessary changes

Since it turns out it should have been done by last January, they probably hoped to get the sale done under the wire and that it would become your problem

Unfortunately for them it's not - and yes, any other buyer's searches will pick this up so they might as well get on with it or reduce the price

[SlippersForFlippers]

I assume this will be the case for all interested parties who would need a mortgage.

Have you spoken to the estate agents, are they aware of this 'new' regulation and the work not being carried out? Maybe they can explain to the vendor.

[Scrunchcake]

@fuzzyduck1

Check the wiring in the house if it’s red and black and not brown and blue (dam you EU) then the wiring isn’t upto latest regulations would expect them to rewire the house or give you a reduction?
Would you?
I don’t think so.

No, you wouldn't. But the law for septic tanks is different. They aren't legally allowed to sell the house if they have a septic tank draining to surface water.

[Pipandmum]

Wait, what exactly does that mean? My roof trusses are nit up to current code, but they've been holding it up for 150 years, and I'd only need to get it up to code if I was to replace it. Is the septic working properly? Is there a legal requirement to bring it up to code now? Or only of you replaced it? Either way, if sellers aren't willing to share the cost you have two choices: leave it (if that's legal and it's working), replace it or walk away.

[EdmundElephantIsACleverClogs]

Can you get a mortgage then if it's illegal?
Like pp said mortgage companies may not give you a mortgage for the house if it's not up to standard.

The only option you really have if you don't want to pay and they won't is to walk away.

Just because you want to move you would be ridiculous to cost yourself £15000 you don't need to spend.

[TrashPanda]

It means that by law any septic tank that discharges to surface water, as this one does, must be changed to a sewage treatment system by Jan 2020. The ruling was made in 2015 and applies to all septic tanks that discharge to surface water, no matter how long ago they were installed.

The majority of regulations such as electrics, windows, insulation etc, etc. are not applied retrospectively, this regulation is.

[Leaannb]

@anniegun

Nobody has to do this. Nobody polices this. Our septic tank is 25 years old and so will undoubtedly not pass newer regulations . I will not be changing it and the run off is into our woodland so will never affect anyone else.

You don't think septic run off won't affect water supply or the ecosystem in the woodland?

[VistaOfFreedom]

The thing is, it doesn't matter what's 'fair' or reasonable, if they won't do it you have to decide whether to do it or walk away. That might make them compromise, or it might not

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

The majority of regulations such as electrics, windows, insulation etc, etc. are not applied retrospectively, this regulation is

That's what seems to make the difference isn't it?

I've had this myself where the "new code" thing only has to be installed when things are replaced, but in view of the above it's obvious the vendors are liable. Whether they'll do it, pay OP to or cry "shan't!!" is unknowable, but I certainly wouldn't be paying for something that's down to them

[callmeadoctor]

www.priceyourjob.co.uk/septic-tank-cost/ May possibly be not as expensive as you think.

[SoupDragon]

@callmeadoctor

www.priceyourjob.co.uk/septic-tank-cost/ May possibly be not as expensive as you think.

It's not installing a septic tank though, It needs to be converted to a "small sewage system" as it discharges into surface water.