No food left for older children at school

[Kacee29]

I’ll probably get told I’m moaning about nothing here but here goes.

I have a Dd in infants and a dc in year 5. Dd gets free lunches as they all do. We pay for DS’s lunches as over the years he’s really enjoyed having school dinners. He’s willing to try a lot more food there (he has asd and issues with food). Plus he doesn’t really like packed lunch foods. So yeah he’s always had the cooked lunches.

Now he’s in year 5 he’s the second to last in to get have lunch and on a few occasions he’s not had much for lunch as there’s nothing left - he’s ended up with something he doesn’t like or something like a sandwich which I could make for himself anyway (nor do any of the other children as it’s the last things left 😫) I know I’m sounding precious but he will simply not eat anything that’s given to him.

Aibu to think they should make enough so the children in the older years can eat once they get there? We pay for his lunches but some children get their lunches free if on a low income etc. It’s even worse for those children receiving free lunches as it might be the only substantial meal they get in the day. I know that DS can come home and eat, others might not.

But then I think we pay nearly £45 a month for him to eat. So it’s not really good enough not having enough food?!

They know how many children in the juniors are going to be having cooked food in the morning.

So yeah aibu to be annoyed. Thinking of sending him packed lunch but he generally loves the cooked lunches. This has been an ongoing problem since September. I think the issue lies with that before covid not all infants would take up the free lunches - some took packed lunches. Now the school won’t allow those who get free lunches to take a pack lunch because of covid plus he’s one of the last in!

It makes me so sad when he comes home and says he hasn’t really eaten much so packed lunch it is! 😭

At my gs school (hes age 5) my daughter ticks a list for the week of what he would like for lunch and that is what he will get for lunch. The system works then as everyone is getting the food they have ordered. Do you have that sort of system at your school? I would agree that its bad planning for the kids going last to end up with hardly anything. X

Now the school won’t allow those who get free lunches to take a pack lunch because of covid

I'm obviously really thick because no matter how many times I read this it makes zero sense to me. I just don't understand how any of this is related to Covid in fact.

I would definitely raise it with the school. They should have enough food for all of the kids to have a hot meal and if they don't want any waste they need a sensible system for ordering choices first thing in the morning. If they don't want to do that either, then they need to keep back a plate of the hot meal for a child with specific needs, such as OP's. And if they won't do that, then they need to organise a refund every time there's no proper lunch left and OP's dc goes hungry. I'd have thought it would be easier just to get their act together with the food tbh. God knows what y6 are eating. YANBU.

It’s common, I complain every time and get refunded. Our school guesstimates how many kids will have lunch that day which means either kids go hungry or there is lots of waste. It’s ridiculous.

It really isn't a pandemic thing. I used to teach and there is a hierarchy of little ones and then the bigger ones at lunchtime.

Sometime it's a shortage that can't be predicted and the kitchen will come up with something else.

Kitchen staff have guidelines about how much infants and then juniors have in terms of portions.

What sometimes happens is the give too much. Not necessarily their fault, a child might ask. There could be a good reason and a staff member says could you give x a little more as they haven't had breakfast.

Dinner are counted and the amount of food accounted for. If anyone gets a bit more, or if 5 kids forget their packed lunch and need a dinner then it has an affect on all the kids.
Especially the older/later ones.

You don't need to make it a complaint. Raise it as a concern and also if it can be looked into. Keep a diary of when throng are and aren't available and email it to the school.

Teachers are often asked if there are issues and we give feedback. We only hear or see some of it though.

You are completely allowed to share your children's experiences and expect change.

@sophandbridge

The school cannot make multiple amounts on the budget they are given, they make X portions for X pupils and the later ones do get less choice I'm afraid. Other than children with allergies or dietary needs such as being vegetarian etc then they have to have what is left.

The prisons get more per head for one meal than schools do.

would it not work though if they gave menus each month ahead and parents and kids choose what they want? Pretty sure my niece's school does this

@newstart1337

Its a school not a restaurant, I dont get the idea that children should have a large election meals to choose from (what a waste of food). It sounds like in this case the child is a picky eater, rather than there being no food for him to eat.

When I was at school there was one meal available. Allergies aside children were taught to eat & enjoy what was on their plate.

Except there are more options,just none left by the time the older kids are in. One meal for all fair enough(well not really) , but they all pay the same or are subsidised the same,they should all get the same.

Not one lot gets sausages and mash and another cold sandwiches and a piece of lettuce.

Schools are under pressure at the moment. That doesn't mean you can't raise issues. There are possible solutions - most schools I have been in get primary children to order in the morning... my DDs school has taken it a step further to order online at least the day before. Some schools also have a rota for who goes in first (although this may not be possible with covid staggered times).

The problem with this, is, if the school is offering a choice of menu, which most do, that its extremely difficult to cater for everyone to have their 'choices ' they all have a budget to work to. They cannot afford to provide every child with every choice on the menu that particular day. That would be impossible to do. all the school are obliged to do is provide a meal. Whatever that may be. God knows I remember when I was at school we didn't even have a choice! You got what you were given and therefore nobody went hungry, because the school knew they had one meal for each pupil. Easy times back then. I guess it would be easier if they ordered in advance but trying to get teenagers to decide what they want for their lunch and then remembering what they ordered would be an utter nightmare.. like trying to herd cats!

Speak to head. The catering provision needs sorting out but also changing the order of which year goes in first is a good idea too.

@cakewitch

The problem with this, is, if the school is offering a choice of menu, which most do, that its extremely difficult to cater for everyone to have their 'choices ' they all have a budget to work to. They cannot afford to provide every child with every choice on the menu that particular day. That would be impossible to do. all the school are obliged to do is provide a meal. Whatever that may be. God knows I remember when I was at school we didn't even have a choice! You got what you were given and therefore nobody went hungry, because the school knew they had one meal for each pupil. Easy times back then. I guess it would be easier if they ordered in advance but trying to get teenagers to decide what they want for their lunch and then remembering what they ordered would be an utter nightmare.. like trying to herd cats!

None of OP's children are teenagers. One is 6/7 and the other 9/10.

This is a weird set up. Not one school I have ever worked in (primary) does this. A 3 week menu is produced each term and repeats. The menu is given out well in advance and publicized on website and around the school. Each morning the children do the attendance register and at the same time say what they would like for lunch - meat option, veggie option, jacket potato with cheese and/or beans option, school prepared packed lunch or home prepared packed lunch. Numbers are then phoned through by the office to the kitchens (based in another school which services around 8 local schools.) This is standard stuff, not some kind of cafeteria type system of when it's gone, it's gone. Not until high school.

Slightly different in Covid times. Some schools still aren't offering hot meals. Most here are offering a reduced two week cycle for the menu where veggie option is jacket potato. Issues are around staffing and social distancing, and in some cases logistics. To maintain bubbles, our children eat lunch in their classes, so food has to be boxed up and then taken to them. In larger schools this isn't possible due to time, hence not offering hot meals.

Some schools are not allowing packed lunches in school as it is yet more stuff coming from home to school and back again that may spread the virus. (But coats are allowed in, and bags, and PE kits, and the children themselves...at that point, how much more difference does a lunch box make?)

Our school does this and it's been going on well before COVID.
DD is yr1 and always gets her pick of all the options, DS is yr3 so the second sitting for lunch and they've always run out of the main option and he usually has either a jacket potato with no filling or something that doesn't 'go' like veggies and an empty burger bun, I don't want to be 'that parent' during a pandemic but we do pay for his meals so he can have something warm in his stomach at lunch on the colder days.

How is this even happening at the two primary schools I work at and the one my children went to school dinner choices were ordered in the morning and they cooked the relevant meals so it does matter who goes in last as the dinner they ordered is there.

This is fuck all to do with the pandemic it's a catering issues and it's totally unacceptable to not feed the children a dinner. I would raise this with the head immediately

Our school, we order the lunch in advance, so the school is aware for example how many children will be having lasagne, so then there isn't a shortfall.

In my children's old school, meal got ordered at morning registration time, hated that, because often my kids missed out on their chosen dessert as it's all gone, it would always be when it's ice cream or chocolate cake. Like come on everyone knows kids all day long will pick ice cream over a oat biscuit! Have enough of it!

Not sure what schools are like there but here the School Kitchen runs independently to the school and there s a head cook who sorts the budget etc.

YDNBU they should absolutely be providing a hot dinner if choice. I think school dinners are expensive for what you get.

Our school makes the DC choose from the 3 options first thing in the morning, which allows the correct amount of each food to be cooked. It’s a good system and only takes a minute or two for the teacher to sort out.

If your paying money for it they should be getting what they want . I stopped school lunches when I was paying £1.70 and my kids were saying it was inedible. One day my son asked for a baked potato and it was burnt black and inedible. He asked for another instead and was told no. It not like it was a free meal it cost me nearly £2 .

This is ridiculous that some children are getting substandard food and others have organised systems in place. It proves it’s not difficult to manage if someone in charge engages their brain!

I work in primary school catering and i would suggest you contact the head if meals are provided through the school or an external company, they can provide guidance to yourself or geg changes implemented. We do have a very limited cost per child to produce cooked from scratch meals but no child should be hungry. There are ways for meals to be prebooked by parents or on site by the child (my company and the company that caters for ds's school have different approaches) it might be worth asking the school to look into these.

My school uses to do this in late 90s, I rather hoped it was something unheard of now - we used to get boiled rice, grated cheese and a digestive biscuit .. or mashed potato instead of rice with dry tuna ! Used to be told there wasn’t enough for all of us and the last class/FSM pupils/those being ‘punished’ got the scrapings/leftovers only ... not at all OK !!

At our school children pick the meal they want first thing in a morning from a choice of three or four. All the meals are colour coded and depending on their choice they are given a matching wrist band. Once they have the numbers the catering staff cook the correct number of meals so that every child can have their choice . The children show their bands to the staff serving the meals so they can be sure the child get the meal they ordered.

@cakewitch

The problem with this, is, if the school is offering a choice of menu, which most do, that its extremely difficult to cater for everyone to have their 'choices ' they all have a budget to work to. They cannot afford to provide every child with every choice on the menu that particular day. That would be impossible to do. all the school are obliged to do is provide a meal. Whatever that may be. God knows I remember when I was at school we didn't even have a choice! You got what you were given and therefore nobody went hungry, because the school knew they had one meal for each pupil. Easy times back then. I guess it would be easier if they ordered in advance but trying to get teenagers to decide what they want for their lunch and then remembering what they ordered would be an utter nightmare.. like trying to herd cats!

Nobody when hungry..., except the kids who couldn’t eat the one meal option

There’s a certain meal I can’t eat without vomiting because of being force-fed it by my father. It was on my school’s dinner menu every other Tuesday as they had a rotating fixed menu. Every other Tuesday I had no lunch (and for the first six months a fortnightly battle with staff who tried to make me eat it).

Looking back to “easier times” with rose tinted glasses only works because you didn’t go hungry. Children went hungry then.

My son is older now, and was not in a pandemic situation at school, but they chose their meal the day before which I assume helped the kitchen to plan what they ordered

@cakewitch

The problem with this, is, if the school is offering a choice of menu, which most do, that its extremely difficult to cater for everyone to have their 'choices ' they all have a budget to work to. They cannot afford to provide every child with every choice on the menu that particular day. That would be impossible to do. all the school are obliged to do is provide a meal. Whatever that may be. God knows I remember when I was at school we didn't even have a choice! You got what you were given and therefore nobody went hungry, because the school knew they had one meal for each pupil. Easy times back then. I guess it would be easier if they ordered in advance but trying to get teenagers to decide what they want for their lunch and then remembering what they ordered would be an utter nightmare.. like trying to herd cats!

It's extremely easy to do in primary school though - you just book in advance. Get the parents to order for each week, kitchen buys and cooks 100 meat options, 20 veggie options and 32 jacket potatoes or whatever, and serve to the children.

Most schools manage it so there's no reason the OP's school can't.

They need to make enough hot food. I would drop an email to the head along the lines of ‘I want to make you aware...’