No food left for older children at school

[Kacee29]

I’ll probably get told I’m moaning about nothing here but here goes.

I have a Dd in infants and a dc in year 5. Dd gets free lunches as they all do. We pay for DS’s lunches as over the years he’s really enjoyed having school dinners. He’s willing to try a lot more food there (he has asd and issues with food). Plus he doesn’t really like packed lunch foods. So yeah he’s always had the cooked lunches.

Now he’s in year 5 he’s the second to last in to get have lunch and on a few occasions he’s not had much for lunch as there’s nothing left - he’s ended up with something he doesn’t like or something like a sandwich which I could make for himself anyway (nor do any of the other children as it’s the last things left 😫) I know I’m sounding precious but he will simply not eat anything that’s given to him.

Aibu to think they should make enough so the children in the older years can eat once they get there? We pay for his lunches but some children get their lunches free if on a low income etc. It’s even worse for those children receiving free lunches as it might be the only substantial meal they get in the day. I know that DS can come home and eat, others might not.

But then I think we pay nearly £45 a month for him to eat. So it’s not really good enough not having enough food?!

They know how many children in the juniors are going to be having cooked food in the morning.

So yeah aibu to be annoyed. Thinking of sending him packed lunch but he generally loves the cooked lunches. This has been an ongoing problem since September. I think the issue lies with that before covid not all infants would take up the free lunches - some took packed lunches. Now the school won’t allow those who get free lunches to take a pack lunch because of covid plus he’s one of the last in!

It makes me so sad when he comes home and says he hasn’t really eaten much so packed lunch it is! 😭

Why are the school under ordering? You are paying for the meal, but there is not enough left. School are to blame, they must know about this already but are choosing to ignore. It needs to be addressed, your poor ds- trying new foods is hard enough with ASD and all the sensory issues but then to have to deal with literally nothing left for him to eat is utterly ridiculous!

@NellyBarney

At our local primary they publish a menue in advance and you have to pre book your choice in advance. It's cooked off site so only the exact amount is delivered to the school. Downside is that pupils can't change their mind and that there is nothing left in case someone has forgotten their packed lunch.

I'm a school cook; I cater for the primary school I am based in, the nursery located in the same campus, a neighbouring primary school and their associated nursery, plus two other nurseries. Schools preorder in class, office collates and gives me the numbers between 9 & 10am. Nurseries do similar, but with parents preordering beforehand (one does day before, one does weekly, another monthly)

Due to the current situation we are providing a reduced menu of two choices, although there are also modified meals available to meet specific dietary requirements (allergies, meatfree, vegan, dry eaters etc). Menu is a four week rotation.

Different sittings etc at each location mean my numbers split 16 ways (32 if you consider this is being done for both options) I always add an extra portion or 2 of each to account for a forgotten packed lunch, spillages, kids who mistakenly say they are packed lunch but should have said school dinner...

Reading this thread, it seems that some schools DON'T use any form of preorder system, and that seems ridiculous!
It really doesn't take that much time, and makes lunch service far smoother, as well as reducing food waste.

OP: you are paying for your child to eat a hot meal, he should be getting what you have requested; please do mention it to the school, it can and should be dealt with effectively.

same thing used to happen in my dc primary school and this was pre covid. my child would often come home hungry as there was nothing they liked left to eat by the time they got to have dinner as the year 6s would be last to have dinner every day. I ended up putting my child on packed lunches as complaining to school didn't change anything.

I remember this being an issue when I was at primary school, a thousand years ago. The last in to the dining hall was left with the cheese salad no one else wanted or the meagre scrapings left at the bottom of the pans. The Y6s went hungry routinely.

At local schools here, each pupil orders their food in the morning so they know exactly how much to cook. There is usually extra if someone changes their mind by lunchtime and no one does without. Fussy kids are given off-menu items (such as a ham sandwich) if they can't stomach the food. The cooks are compassionate and care about the kids, they wouldn't stand for kids going without. Absolutely complain, it is unreasonable for children to be going hungry.

I temped in a school kitchen recently and saw this happening.
Reception class got to eat like royalty but by the time the older kids came in they were down to the bare bones of the popular food. I felt sorry for them and their plates of random food stuffs.

Packed lunch in thermos

We used to rotate the classes going first but now can’t do that because we have to have staggered lunches with set classes to reflect the different lunchtimes for bubbles. I’ve resisted the coloured band system in the past but we have had to introduce it this term as the children stay at their tables and their bubble teachers and TAs serve them by colours. It’s worked really well and we’ve all said we might well stick to this system for the future (without the teachers and TAs having to serve the lunches) Everyone gets what they want and the Year 5 & 6 children get to have anything that’s left over, which they love. It CAN be done and you are right and very much entitled to raise it, but please do it kindly and avoid the ‘demand an explanation or take it to the governors’ Approach. School staff really are exhausted but they will be open to listening to you and addressing this. It doesnt have to be combative.

I'm sorry I've not read the whole thing. I'm knackered and this post is for information only as I feel strongly about this subject. Please please talk to your sons teacher (politely but firmly)/ head. Does your son have an ehcp in place ? If he does, or if indeed he doesn't you could make the small request that your son gets a lunch put by (perhaps he could let the school know early by looking at the lunch menu early if they will organise that) as asd is a disablity under the law and they should (legally if I'm right...but I'm not a lawyer or expert so please don't flame me, I'm a mum with sen needs and a son /sister /partner with asd) make provision for that due to his sensory issues regarding food . Hope this helps. The best thing is to advocate for your son and help him when he is older to advocate for himself as life with these conditions can be a struggle. I've had to fight professionals who have little to no understanding of what life is like for "us" and my son. I really wish you luck . I know it probably was more lighthearted than this .

Haven’t read the full thread, but I can’t believe the number of posters that would prefer to see a hungry child than raise a minor issue with the school. Covid or not, surely it is a basic requirement that kids are provided with food that they can eat.

No you aren't being unreasonable.. you are paying for a meal! Not a sandwich! Like you day.. you could make a sandwich and probably save a lot of money! ... I'd definitely have words with the school about that..

I'm a JMI school cook.

No one ever goes without food in my school, ever.

Our system is at registration every child chooses red, green or yellow option from a set 3 week rolling menu.

The office staff then bring us a printed list of how many in each class are having what option.
EG .
Yr1 Green 10, yellow 5, red 15
Y2 Green 20, yellow 0, red 15
And so on for each year group.

So that is what we prepare, we add maybe 2 extras to allow for dropping or late comers we aren't told about ( has happened).

Vegetables are cooks choice, but we don't do the same two days running.

Puddings are cooks choice too, though we have to have fresh fruit every day.

At lunch time the plates are counted out for each class, so we know if we are missing a child or if someone has "forgotten " which option they chose, or if we have an unexpected child.

If there is a problem it is picked up very quickly.

If we have had to resort to a sandwich it would be a choice of cheese or tuna or possibly jam.
But it would come with veg sticks, fruit and cake/biscuit.

If your school is regularly having problems...that's the cook being crap.

Oh and we are also catering for kids with various allergies too.

At the moment we have kids who are, dairy, soya, gluten and egg free. ( not all in one child!)

In the school I work in the parents are supposed to order on parentpay what they want their child to eat. However, we do have the issue that especially parents of KS1 children don't order as they don't have to pay or do a mix of packed lunches and school dinners without much warning. I have one child in my class I have to check everyday as despite frequent chats with his mum she has never ordered him a dinner and randomly will send a (crap) packed lunch. The kitchen sends the ordered dinners and myself or the dinner lady have to run to ask them to make more.

Yep, picking from the menus at start of day has to be the solution here. Can't really understand why any schools wouldn't use this system these days. What's the point of guessing how many kids are going to chose which option? There are enough examples all round the country that the governors/SLT/kitchen team/caterers could talk to another school that uses the system and adopt it pretty quickly. Reduces waste, ensures everyone gets their choice of meal & fed properly - why wouldn't any school ask in advance what every kid wants to eat for lunch?

Makes it even more atrocious, the school are not getting funding for this meal you are paying for it!! Nothing to do with the bloody pandemic. I would email the headteacher and demand a refund for all meals paid so far this academic year and ask how they are going manage this going forward. That’s completely unacceptable.

YANBU. I used to pay for both my kids to get school meals as I had to work full time and thought it would save me cooking an evening meal when I got in, but my daughter told me she’d had chips and an orange for lunch I took it up with the school, they tried to tell me it was her choice, but I told them I expected them to ensure she got the proper meal each day that I’d paid for. Also made it clear to daughter that she had to try whatever was on offer. It did seem to work

I’m a school cook, I think this is horrific! Raise a serious point with the head of the school! Children need to eat at lunchtime. Fact! Sandwiches are ok sometimes, but I don’t feel he will be having a balanced nutritional diet if he’s being given little bits of this and that! The meals available to him should be those printed on the school menu. You are correct in thinking also some children won’t get to eat much other than what is served to them at school! It is very important that this is situation is rectified immediately. Covid is not an excuse for not serving children a full meal. I am appalled at the catering team for not producing enough meals for each of the children ordering school meals. He is very lucky to have you as his mother.

I think that if this is a frequent problem for your son in year 5 then it must be even worse for the kids in year 6.
It must be virtually impossible for them to make all the choices available to all the children every day: which is why our local primary sensibly asks everyone to select from the menu by Friday of the previous week. It does mean that the kids can't change their mind but also less good waste and everyone gets something that they have chosen.

Emergency 'forgot packed lunch' kids get jacket potato with a choice of topping.

I work in a school and we insist on parents booking meals in advance so the kitchen knows exactly who is having what. COVID measures means meals are served in individual containers. Kitchen always makes a couple of extra portions too just in case of some issue. This means everyone gets what they’ve asked for.

The kitchen shouldn’t run out of food, that’s poor planning on the caterer.

This year due to Covid, our school have 2 choices (meat or vegetarian). At the beginning of the week they pick which menu they prefer. No problems with my Y6.

They had more choices and could choose on the day previously (although aa my kids have special dietary requirements they didn't usually have a choice) and occasionally there waa an issue of not having enough left but not regularly. I think the new system works better though.

At my school, the next weeks menu goes in the newsletter every Friday. Children make their choice first thing every morning and are given a coloured band to show what their choice is. The numbers of children choosing each choice are noted in the register and so the kitchen knows exactly how many portions of each item they need.

At my sons school they take lunch orders first thing, then everyone gets what they wanted.

@Estheryan07

I’m a school cook, I think this is horrific! Raise a serious point with the head of the school! Children need to eat at lunchtime. Fact! Sandwiches are ok sometimes, but I don’t feel he will be having a balanced nutritional diet if he’s being given little bits of this and that! The meals available to him should be those printed on the school menu. You are correct in thinking also some children won’t get to eat much other than what is served to them at school! It is very important that this is situation is rectified immediately. Covid is not an excuse for not serving children a full meal. I am appalled at the catering team for not producing enough meals for each of the children ordering school meals. He is very lucky to have you as his mother.

same!!

I'd be horrified if one of mine didn't eat.
Our school staff all know that I'll always feed the one that opens a packed lunch box to find it looking a bit bare, or the one who forgot to pick it up, so the idea that those who had actually ordered a meal wouldn't get fed is pretty alien to me.

You should complain.

If you contact the school, maybe give them a couple of suggestions to the issue.

There are some good suggestions above, the coloured band for example is easy to do.

Another suggestion would be instead of putting everything out at the start, put out sufficient of good / popular and not popular as each grade goes through. So by the time the older grades go through they still get all options.