To investigate moving MIL in with me?

[CoffeePhoenix]

MIL fell and broke her hip last week. She's in her 80s. If she were to ever be in a position to leave hospital, would I be unreasonable in offering her a place to stay?

She lives with SIL but she is out of her depth with her needs. It seems clear that you would need call in doctors after a bad fall / repeated falls in one evening (pre covid)(especially when she doesn't normally have falls - it was unusual) but if MIL says no, SIL won't do it. (That time MIL was actually very seriously ill with sepsis and the delay to seeking help nearly killed her)

So. I'm thinking of seeing if she can stay with us. But I don't know what support will be offered - she had district nurses around a lot at her house but we're a different area. She's frail, can't walk much and we're worried that the broken hip is going to end what little mobility she had left. Would there be any support available? Any one to help me get her up in the mornings / washed? Actually just washed. That's what I'm really worried about...

Is this a terrible idea? I'm not sure what alternatives there are especially in the time of covid...

Why won't SIL do something if MIL says no? Is it just that MIL is stoic and so SIL assumes she is ok or is MIL quite fiery and she is scared. That would be an important difference for me especially if you have children still at home. There may be care help available but she might need to pay again if she is of sound mind she could refuse to have paid carers or pay for it and at least some days- e.g. if snow, lots of illness you might need to step in or accept that it isn't happening that day.

I think if you move her in with you, absolutely zero help will be offered.

They are underfunded and understaffed and it'll be your problem not theirs .

So if you can't manage, don't offer, you'd be stopping help she actually needs from being put in place.

Perhaps it's time for her to go in an old folks home where they have equipment to help lift, wash etc and then you, DH and SIL can visit and enjoy nicer time with her.

I am a doctor. Talk to the ward sister. They will offer a ‘package of care’ which means someone coming in daily or twice daily for care. Explain your concerns and be VERY VERY clear about what you will not do. Do not be talked into things. Say things like - “I have a bad back”. I am not willing to provide personal intimate care”. Be strong and if they try to be tough suggest a care home . It is much much much more expensive and time consuming for them to do this and they will be desperate to set up carers.
But if you are out of area this is more difficult. It might be that she gets transferred to a local hospital so that THEY can set up a care package. The important thing is that you refuse to take her before this is set up.

I had my mum at home with me. Did have carers come in 4 x a day, to get her up, a couple of toilet trips and then to get her ready for bed. (Think that was means tested against my mums savings)Occupational health did an assessment and gave me any equipment l needed for her, then nurses came in etc. Think very carefully though as it is a hard slog. I work full time and apart from these visits I was on my own, (only child) so difficult to go out and pretty impossible to go on holidays. My dad had dementia and completely lost his mobility so coming home wasn’t an option for him as he needed 2 people to hoist and house wasn’t set up for downstairs bathroom etc. I think you are being very kind but think hard and fully investigate any help you can get before you make the decision because as she lived with you, you will be pretty much left to cope .

I've definitely delivered care through SS / healthcare funding to people in their relatives' homes. So funding does get allocated. I don't know how quickly that happens though. You need to talk with her and the hospital about what she needs going forward.

Is your house set up to cope with someone who has limited mobility and has a history of falling? Would she be able to move around rooms, get to her bedroom/bathroom?

What does your MIL want?

Yes you can have care at home to assist with personal care. You can get some basic equipment which will assist with toileting but you might need new bed/chair. Is the bedroom, bathroom and living area all on one level. The ward can arrange help.

Is this going to cause a rift between you, MIL and SIL when she is at her most vulnerable and needs everyone to come together?

This is an insight into what caring for an immobile parent. I know the op got some bad news as the thread progressed. But do be aware if you care for your mil, she may deteriorate and it will have an impact on your health. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/elderly_parents/4065841-Have-to-get-mum-out-of-nursing-home-but-how?msgid=101405517

Thank you for advice, especially @olympicsrock for the practical advice (the hospital that she is in, is in a third area to her home / my home, so it's quite convoluted!)

@TW2013 I have no ideas why the children don't over ride her decisions at times when it is clear that she isn't making them for good reasons but I'm quite clear with her that if she needs to go to hospital, then I will take her and stay with her and speak to the doctors and so on. MIL did try arguing at the start but each time I've insisted, it's proven to be the right decision. Really, MIL is scared, terrified, of hospitals and had several very long stays and just needs to know that you will help get her home. Oh God, that sounds like I'm bullish and insensitive, and I'm not, I promise. She's not scared of me, she trusts me and we have a different relationship than she had with her children obviously...

My thought is that I will investigate what can be done in terms of carers at both her own house and at mine. I'm a little worried about SIL being able to say no to her when something is not a good idea - her broken hip was a complete accident and yet, came about because SIL wouldn't say "that's not a good idea mum, you aren't strong enough for that" - not a hindsight view, but very clearly a bad decision from the start...

You have to be very clear, whilst she is in hospital what care you can provide and insist on a care package for what you cannot supply. Care packages take time and cannot be quickly altered, should her care needs change.
It’s a a very big commitment and once she is with you, should you be unable to cope, it’ll be very hard to get her into alternative accommodation. You may also need to have hoists, do you have stairs? etc will you mind having your home potentially altered to a significant degree. If your MIL states she doesn’t want a specific aspect of care, eg personal care then they will not administer it whilst she is sound of mind.
What about assisted living? I wouldn’t make a hasty decision.

I was a district nurse for many years and saw this arrangement fall apart hundreds of times. It will be carers you need but MIL may have to pay. And IME she won't want to.
I would think long and hard about this. And wouldn't recommend it. Nows the time for her rainy day savings to come into play to ensure she is safe and well cared for. Not involving you.
I'd think very differently of my MIL letting me put my life on hold indefinitely for her needs.

When my mother was in a similar situation I was told that, in our area at least, carers allocated through Social Services would have very limited time (around 15 minutes per visit) and there would be no guarantee of consistency. As she was living on her own in sheltered housing at the time and didn't want to move out, that worried me as we would be reliant on carers to make sure she took the right medication at the right time. In the end we went for a private care company which offered longer visits and at least a degree of consistency in the carers so that she could build up a relationship with at least some of them, but it was expensive and still quite hit and miss.

@knackersknockersknickers I don't think this will cause a rift - there are 4 children, and 2 have already raised the problem of her returning home to me (not including my DH). The remaining sibling, I just haven't spoken to yet, but I imagine that they will not be up for increased day to day caring.

MIL doesn't want help, doesn't want to go into a care home AT ALL, doesn't want anything except to carry on as she always had done even though sadly, she is losing mobility and strength.

In terms of house suitability, her own house might be more suitable if I can persuade SIL that they would need to turn the living room into a bedroom so she can live on the ground floor.

I think if you move her in with you, absolutely zero help will be offered.

^That by 100!

Yes they will tell you you will get a package of care with carers popping in twice a day... which means some one will get her out of bed and someone else back to bed but you will be doing all the care and then as “family are providing care” she would be deemed low priority or independent enough to be cared at home when it comes to more specialist care.

... or at least least, that’s my experience of it.

I work for Adult Social Care. In terms of care packages, ask the ward for her to be allocated to a hospital social worker who can discuss with you what support is available and needed. Initially she would probably be entitled to a program of rehab for six weeks with carers coming into support her x times a day, funded by health. After that, a care package could be provided, but she would need to be financially assessed and if she has assets over £23k she wouldn't be entitled to any financial support for her care.

@cptartapp there are no savings whatsoever, no resources for any of us to dip into at all. Me and DH are totally skint, MIL lives each week pension to pension.

@KarmaNoMore what kind of specialist care? I would want her to have help getting her up and washed each day. Tell me what I'm not thinking of!

Will you be at home all the time OP to be there for her if she needs help?

@MeowMeowLikeACow thank you, very helpful

I'd talk to MIL and SIL about what they want, and maybe you and your husband additionally discuss your concerns with SIL on her own.
Maybe after the previous incident, SIL will be aware that she needs to override MILs wishes on occasion, or that she can call on you for help/advice in an emergency, or to firm up the aftercare package with the hospital.

That is also something to consider OP, if you are already skint this can spiral you down into debt very easily as you will be providing for another person with gradually increased needs.

@ineedaholidaynow yes DH and I are home every day anyway

@EveryDayIsADuvetDay SIL definitely not ever going to stop MIL doing something even if it is clearly unwise. Without outing us, the accident happened when MIL did something which I have asked her not to do repeatedly because it was clearly dangerous. Ive asked SIL not to assist her in doing this. I've banged on for the last few years about this.

However if she has no savings then she wont be charged for care so she wont refuse it. So that may work in your favour.

If you sister in law has been the main carer for her mum for long period of time then kudos to her. Regardless of love, fatigue can set in and even if you know the person is asking for (in)action that’s detrimental to their health, you go along with it through exhaustion and stress. You need to talk to your mother in law and ask what she wants. Then talk to your sister in law too. Slightly off topic but the harsh reality is that older people are kept going, when they should be allowed to slip away with dignity.