To investigate moving MIL in with me?

[CoffeePhoenix]

MIL fell and broke her hip last week. She's in her 80s. If she were to ever be in a position to leave hospital, would I be unreasonable in offering her a place to stay?

She lives with SIL but she is out of her depth with her needs. It seems clear that you would need call in doctors after a bad fall / repeated falls in one evening (pre covid)(especially when she doesn't normally have falls - it was unusual) but if MIL says no, SIL won't do it. (That time MIL was actually very seriously ill with sepsis and the delay to seeking help nearly killed her)

So. I'm thinking of seeing if she can stay with us. But I don't know what support will be offered - she had district nurses around a lot at her house but we're a different area. She's frail, can't walk much and we're worried that the broken hip is going to end what little mobility she had left. Would there be any support available? Any one to help me get her up in the mornings / washed? Actually just washed. That's what I'm really worried about...

Is this a terrible idea? I'm not sure what alternatives there are especially in the time of covid...

What a worrying time for you OP. An elderly relative of mine was in a similar situation after a stroke. She was assigned a hospital social worker during her hospital stay following the stroke and was also referred to Adult Social Care. It was decided that she didn’t qualify for needing residential care but that returning to her own home wasn’t suitable either. Instead, ‘extra care housing’ was recommended and she now has her own flat in a purpose built block of 60 for people who need support. Carers are on site and visit her 4 times a day. She has a lifeline system she can pull if she needs them and they are with her in minutes. There is an on site restaurant to provide a hot 2 course meal each day and carers do her shopping, cleaning, washing and ironing as well as personal care.
The bathroom is a large wet room with handrails. Is it possible there is something like this near your MIL?
Also is your MIL getting Attendance Allowance? She may also be entitled to Pension Credit which I believe is payable at a higher rate if Attendance Allowance is in payment.
Good luck OP

Assuming you will be in charge and she will do as you say is in reality highly unlikely. Unless you physically will be with her 24/7 Ie at her side, and wrestling her to the ground to stop her.

Which would be elder abuse, of course. Your MIL has not been diagnosed as mentally incapacitated, so she can state how she wants to live her own life.

@LazyDaisy22

What a worrying time for you OP. An elderly relative of mine was in a similar situation after a stroke. She was assigned a hospital social worker during her hospital stay following the stroke and was also referred to Adult Social Care. It was decided that she didn’t qualify for needing residential care but that returning to her own home wasn’t suitable either. Instead, ‘extra care housing’ was recommended and she now has her own flat in a purpose built block of 60 for people who need support. Carers are on site and visit her 4 times a day. She has a lifeline system she can pull if she needs them and they are with her in minutes. There is an on site restaurant to provide a hot 2 course meal each day and carers do her shopping, cleaning, washing and ironing as well as personal care. The bathroom is a large wet room with handrails. Is it possible there is something like this near your MIL? Also is your MIL getting Attendance Allowance? She may also be entitled to Pension Credit which I believe is payable at a higher rate if Attendance Allowance is in payment. Good luck OP

Out of interest, Is your relative self funding?

She was assigned a hospital social worker during her hospital stay following the stroke and was also referred to Adult Social Care. It was decided that she didn’t qualify for needing residential care but that returning to her own home wasn’t suitable either. Instead, ‘extra care housing’ was recommended and she now has her own flat in a purpose built block of 60 for people who need support.

If an individual’s primary need for care is a health need - in your relative’s case the consequences of a stroke - then the NHS may meet the cost of their care. (It’s paid by CHC - continuing healthcare funding).

In the OP’s case - once MIL has recovered from her broken hip - she doesn’t really have a health need as such - she’s just old and frail, in that case she would not qualify for that kind of funding.

You might think that not being able to walk would be sufficient, but it wasn’t in my aunt’s case.

You have had a lot of excellent practical advice on here OP. I’m going to come at it from another POV.

We are in a similar position. My DHs 92 yo mother has dementia and is becoming physically frail. She still lives on her own and has paid carers coming in for 6 hours a day but even that is inadequate now. My SIL lives very close to her (about a 3 minute walk) and has a tremendous burden of care in addition to her job as a teacher. It would make much more sense for MIL to move in with us because we have more space and I’m at home full time - except for one important consideration. MIL would hate it. She would hate to be away from her home and her area and her beloved daughter and living in an unfamiliar space with a DIL. We have always got on well but ultimately I’m not her child. I don’t have the loving bond her DD has and realistically the bulk of the care would fall on me not my DH. Even when we tried to alleviate some of the burden and have MIL stay here overnight at weekends to give SIL a break it was a disaster. She was frightened and lonely and I think it made her dementia symptoms worse. An example is that the only way she would go to bed was if one of our adult DDs slept with her, otherwise she would try to get ‘dressed’ in the middle of the night to catch non existent buses home. She might have been physically safer here but she was unhappy and her happiness matters a lot. She is very old and the quality of her remaining years is important.

I’m also very cautious about butting in about care arrangements. I love her but she isn’t my mum so it isn’t my business in the same way it is the business of my SIL and my DH. I offer an ear and practical support and research care options when asked but I don’t presume I know what’s best for someone else’s parent.

If you can find a good care home, I'd really recommend that. My DM had a stroke and was paralysed, so home care wasn't an option. However, despite being compos mentis, having been very independent, and hating the thought, it worked out really well.

We moved her to a nursing home near us (I'm an only child), and I was able to visit every day, and spend my time chatting and eating chocolate, rather than getting stressed out and clashing over the personal care etc. Luckily, she had equity in her home to pay for it, so we had a choice of homes. She was there for more than two years before she died.

Despite not doing any of the personal care etc, it was still very stressful, just visiting every afternoon, fitting in the children (it was just the years of GCSEs and A-levels), work etc. If she had lived with us (we were getting building work done when it happened anyway), I think we would never have survived.

@pinkiepromise123
No, she has capital under the limit (£23k?) so receives funding for some of her care package (she pays roughly one third of the care charges herself from her higher rate AA, which is obviously for care, and the balance from her pension) and housing benefit for the majority of the flat rental charges.

My MIL’s mum was determined she would never go in a home and wanted a mixture of family and carers to look after her at home. She was a very stubborn lady too. But she got frailer and had ever increasing mobility issues. Her bathroom wasn’t set up for her walking aids so she kept falling and ending up in hospital, going home for a few days then back in hospital. The recommendation was then a commode by her bed and she basically live in her bedroom. She then had an infection and had to go into hospital and as she was even frailer after that she was offered the 6 weeks in a care home. She loved it there, had more company and was able to join in with activities in the lounge rather than being stuck in her bed all day. Think she wished she had moved sooner. MIL and other relatives were able to visit and just chat with her, rather than having to sort out personal care and tidy up the house etc.

Would SIL lose the house if MIL moves out?

What does MIL want for a start? She sounds as if she knows her own mind. That in itself is going to be a big issue if you are going to be constantly having to challenge her about what she thinks she can do vs what you think is safe.

There are other big challenges. She will probably need equipment which is bulky and has to be housed. If she is virtually immobile you’d need plenty of access space around the furniture for staff and hoists. Staff will not lift at all and neither should you.

Having people in and out of your house is incredibly disruptive. It’s often just as you are settling down for your meal or on the loo.

You will end up being the key person in charge of all the teams involved. A friend of mine helped her mum stay at home with carers and ended up with 17 different people she had to liaise with. It broke her.

From what you have said despite your good intentions I would doubt this will work. A broken hip at her age is likely to leave her in a condition needing full time care. Have a chat with the social worker and start looking at care homes that might be available. It’s very far from ideal in the current situation but is likely the outcome unfortunately.

Ok to answer some questions

SIL doesn't do active caring for MIL in the sense that she dresses her or assists on the toilet. MIL makes her way to the kitchen, sits there all day, as its closest you the toilet, then goes up to bed. That is her daily routine. District nurses come to dress her feet and legs.

Regarding the "telling people not to help MIL do something dangerous" think among the lines of MIL leaning all her weight on something unsafe / flimsy not designed to take weight. It wasn't big bad DIL laying down the law, more "omg that's going to end in disaster". Definitely not SIL fault, more I added that in to say that SIL will not go against her mum.

I'm leaning more towards helping setting up what support I can in MIL house. SIL will not do any kind of intimate care. Ours about a 40 minute drive from me and I expect I will be there a lot!

FWIW I am already a carer, albeit for someone with different needs. I nursed my own parent through cancer. But I've never dealt with this convergence of scenarios before (this is a different country of the uk and this is navigating a different care systems to what I'm used to)

Just to say, MIL absolutely will not, in no terms consider a care home. Not a chance. Would rather die. So getting what care we can, either in my house or in her house would be the options I could give her if she refused a care home. She definitely has mental capacity but also is not realistic about some things. She will insist she can sleep in her chair in the kitchen all night for example, which I doubt is a long term solution especially with a broken hip

Can I just say what a lovely dil you are! Your dh is a very lucky man to have such a caring kind considerate wife in his life who is thinking so dearly of his mother.

Agree with Ruby above.
Just to clarify I was not suggesting that you lie to say you have a bad back but just to be clear about what you are able to do and are prepared to do and not be talked into agreeing to do more than you are willing to do.
I always think that you should only give of yourself what you can do willingly.
Otherwise you will end up resentful. So if the ask is too great then be clear to MIL that living with you is not an option.