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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Does anyone know how to denounce their British Citizenship

244 replies

Leaannb · 17/11/2020 02:56

My 18 yo who is a dual citizen of the UK and US would like to denounce his British citizenship due to tax reasons. Any idea how?

OP posts:
AwaAnBileYerHeid · 17/11/2020 12:51

Ok I've not read all posts in this thread so I'm not sure if you've done this already. But perhaps a tax advisor would be the best person to speak to to see if there are any loopholes or workarounds instead of giving up his citizenship entirely. Regardless of citizenship, won't he need to pay taxes on any money earned in the UK anyway?

GrandUnion · 17/11/2020 12:55

@HeronLanyon

Renounce not denounce - only saying as it’s less judgmental ! Read your title and thought it was an act of furious flouncy disgust about something (lots to choose from right now in U.K. and us !) Grin
Yes, I thought the OP was enquiring about the citizenship equivalent of Mn Flouncers' Corner!
borageforager · 17/11/2020 12:55

I was also wondering about being a dual nationality soldier. Bit of a security risk, isn’t it?

Ismellphantoms · 17/11/2020 12:59

He would be crazy to renounce UK citizenship. What if he has children while in the UK? They would miss the opportunity to be UK citizens. My cousin renounced his and then decided to live in the EU. It made things twice as difficult for him. This wouldn't apply now, but you need to speak to an immigration lawyer.

Leaannb · 17/11/2020 13:01

@RightYesButNo

This is such an incredibly huge mistake. When your son’s military career is over, it may very well be the American citizenship he wants to denounce and keep the British citizenship, as he may have injuries from the military that will be cared for in a terrible manner (read horror stories about the Veterans Administration) and face bankruptcy trying to care for his health in America versus trying to get help through the NHS. Even if he’s healthy, American companies often treat their workers like dogs (no sick leave, barely any vacation, barely any maternity leave and no paternity), and I say that not being anti-American. Lots of great things about the country, but in quite a few states, they can just fire you even if you’ve worked somewhere for 20 years with no protection at all (it’s called at-will employment and it’s horrible). Likewise, as a citizen, America is one of only two countries that taxes income you earn outside the country (the other is Eritrea), not the UK. My husband is former US military, we’ve left the US and he is looking at denouncing US citizenship for the tax implications, which are wild. We haven’t run into anyone trying to get rid of British citizenship yet.

Do not let your son possibly face becoming a homeless American veteran when he could also have citizenship in a country that, despite its safety net not being what it was even ten years ago, does have a much, much better social safety net (NHS, council housing, etc). Because it all looks rosy today (he’s an 18 year old supposedly earning $60K and getting an online degree), and in a year, he could be in a wheelchair permanently at age 19 after a single combat tour. It happens every year.

You think that the NHS care is any better? 2 years for a simple k ee operation. Don't want to call you a hypocrite but you are a hypocrite. He would die waiting for help on the NHS.
OP posts:
Leaannb · 17/11/2020 13:02

@borageforager

I was also wondering about being a dual nationality soldier. Bit of a security risk, isn’t it?
It would be for certain countries but not all. None of us are soldiers
OP posts:
Leaannb · 17/11/2020 13:03

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

Ok I've not read all posts in this thread so I'm not sure if you've done this already. But perhaps a tax advisor would be the best person to speak to to see if there are any loopholes or workarounds instead of giving up his citizenship entirely. Regardless of citizenship, won't he need to pay taxes on any money earned in the UK anyway?
Of course to the US. He is trying to be double taxes like I am
OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 17/11/2020 13:03

Dear OP
Please educate yourself about

  • double taxation agreements
  • rules for military personnel posted to another country
  • UK tax law
as your posts still make no sense
Leaannb · 17/11/2020 13:05

@RightYesButNo

This is such an incredibly huge mistake. When your son’s military career is over, it may very well be the American citizenship he wants to denounce and keep the British citizenship, as he may have injuries from the military that will be cared for in a terrible manner (read horror stories about the Veterans Administration) and face bankruptcy trying to care for his health in America versus trying to get help through the NHS. Even if he’s healthy, American companies often treat their workers like dogs (no sick leave, barely any vacation, barely any maternity leave and no paternity), and I say that not being anti-American. Lots of great things about the country, but in quite a few states, they can just fire you even if you’ve worked somewhere for 20 years with no protection at all (it’s called at-will employment and it’s horrible). Likewise, as a citizen, America is one of only two countries that taxes income you earn outside the country (the other is Eritrea), not the UK. My husband is former US military, we’ve left the US and he is looking at denouncing US citizenship for the tax implications, which are wild. We haven’t run into anyone trying to get rid of British citizenship yet.

Do not let your son possibly face becoming a homeless American veteran when he could also have citizenship in a country that, despite its safety net not being what it was even ten years ago, does have a much, much better social safety net (NHS, council housing, etc). Because it all looks rosy today (he’s an 18 year old supposedly earning $60K and getting an online degree), and in a year, he could be in a wheelchair permanently at age 19 after a single combat tour. It happens every year.

Yes it does happen every single year. Thats why all of my children's futures are protected. Milotary or not they will jave what they need
OP posts:
Leaannb · 17/11/2020 13:08

@ListeningQuietly

Dear OP Please educate yourself about
  • double taxation agreements
  • rules for military personnel posted to another country
  • UK tax law
as your posts still make no sense
I know the double taxation agreement. Every year that I spend half the year in the UK I'm double taxed.

I spent 22 years in the USAF I know all about rules for military personnel posted overseas. Once again I lived overseas 16 out of my 22 years in the military

OP posts:
TableFlowerss · 17/11/2020 13:11

@MerchantOfVenom

I am always amazed at the sorts of things people use Mumsnet for.

In the time it would have taken you to type ‘denounce UK citizenship’ in google, you’d have the answer.

But instead, you type out a much wordier post on MN, hit send, and then sit and wait patiently for everyone else to do your googling for you. Grin

I was thinking the same Grin
ListeningQuietly · 17/11/2020 13:11

I know the double taxation agreement. Every year that I spend half the year in the UK I'm double taxed.
In that case you are doing your IRS and HMRC returns wrong.

Both countries give you a deduction for federal / national taxes suffered in the other.

You need to talk to both your US and UK accountants
and see if you can file the corrections.

I spent 22 years in the USAF I know all about rules for military personnel posted overseas. Once again I lived overseas 16 out of my 22 years in the military
Then go ask HR not a bunch of randommers in teh UK Hmm

Leaannb · 17/11/2020 13:11

@DanielRicciardosSmile

I want to know the shopping trip story too, OP grin. I reckon its because you were posted on a US military base in the UK which is considered US "soil". But you decided to leave it to go shopping, had a dramatic waters-breaking-in-Marks-and-Spencer moment, and we're taken to a UK hospital before 1983(?). So your DS was automatically a UK citizen as he was born in the UK...

OP's son is 18 though, so can't have been born any earlier than 2001.

He was born on November 5, 2002. I got bored sitting in my house at Newmarket, decided to go shopping at Cambridge, water broke unexpectedly and I was transported to Addenbrookes. Too far away to make Lakenhearh. If he had been born on Lakenjeath this wouldn't be a problem
OP posts:
MumInBrussels · 17/11/2020 13:12

Have you taken tax advice yourself, OP? Because my understanding is that there's an agreement between the UK and the US so that you pay tax on money earned in one country and then tell the other how much you've paid and they knock that off the amount they would have charged you. You shouldn't be paying twice. (Which is what double taxation is...) If you are paying twice on the same money, you need some better tax advice, I think.

thegcatsmother · 17/11/2020 13:13

He would die waiting for help on the NHS Not if he is military. The care is very good and based at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham www.uhb.nhs.uk/rcdm.htm.

A friend of my db was treated there when he was diagnosed with cancer. The care was very good and the whole process of moving him and his family back from a foreign posting, sorting accomodation etc was all taking care of.

dontdisturbmenow · 17/11/2020 13:14

You think that the NHS care is any better? 2 years for a simple k ee operation. Don't want to call you a hypocrite but you are a hypocrite. He would die waiting for help on the NHS
And you come across as an arrogant snob.

I've met many Americans living in the UK and they all rate the NHS highly.

You also never wait for 2 years for a knee replacement. I think you are making many things up.

Leaannb · 17/11/2020 13:14

@funtimefrank

If he's working on a us base in the uk then quite often he's be covered by SOFA - pp mentioned this and it's when military staff don't have to pay tax where they are stationed.

To be honest I'd expect him to get some degree of guidance from his employer to figure this out. It's complex for them as well.

Not neccissarily true. I did because I was citizen and had no choice. Not sure if it was because of UK property ownership or not. My husband didn't jave to pay taxes on his income to UK. Jist US
OP posts:
WattleOn · 17/11/2020 13:14

How did your son get British nationality, OP?

borageforager · 17/11/2020 13:17

So you are British OP?

MumInBrussels · 17/11/2020 13:17

Is one of your son's parents British by descent? Because that's the only way I can think of off the top of my head that being born in the UK vs on a military base would give them citizenship. If neither of you are British, he's not British just because he was born in the UK. Are you certain about his dual citizenship?

CherryRipe1 · 17/11/2020 13:18

@RightYesButNo

This is such an incredibly huge mistake. When your son’s military career is over, it may very well be the American citizenship he wants to denounce and keep the British citizenship, as he may have injuries from the military that will be cared for in a terrible manner (read horror stories about the Veterans Administration) and face bankruptcy trying to care for his health in America versus trying to get help through the NHS. Even if he’s healthy, American companies often treat their workers like dogs (no sick leave, barely any vacation, barely any maternity leave and no paternity), and I say that not being anti-American. Lots of great things about the country, but in quite a few states, they can just fire you even if you’ve worked somewhere for 20 years with no protection at all (it’s called at-will employment and it’s horrible). Likewise, as a citizen, America is one of only two countries that taxes income you earn outside the country (the other is Eritrea), not the UK. My husband is former US military, we’ve left the US and he is looking at denouncing US citizenship for the tax implications, which are wild. We haven’t run into anyone trying to get rid of British citizenship yet.

Do not let your son possibly face becoming a homeless American veteran when he could also have citizenship in a country that, despite its safety net not being what it was even ten years ago, does have a much, much better social safety net (NHS, council housing, etc). Because it all looks rosy today (he’s an 18 year old supposedly earning $60K and getting an online degree), and in a year, he could be in a wheelchair permanently at age 19 after a single combat tour. It happens every year.

Boris relinquished his US citizenship I believe for tax reasons. A friend who is married and lives here- ditto due to Orange 🍊 man. I agree totally about the bad treatment of US veterans, workers and the healthcare aspect.
CherryValanc · 17/11/2020 13:18

Piecing together the information the son was:

is 18 - so born 2002 or 2001
born in the UK
born to a mother who is a British citizen
born to a father who is a USA citizen (unconfirmed).

Meaning he is a British citizen himself and is USA domiciled (if the father is USA citizen and married to his mother when he was born).

What I don't understand is why the OP thinks her son not being a British citizen makes any difference. If he's resident in the UK he pays UK tax on income that he gets when resident in the UK. His citizenship makes no difference to this. If other US military personnel don't pay UK tax due to an exemption, then neither will he. (I don't know if they do or not.)

Paying tax to both UK and USA is due to USA's tax law, about being a USA citizen.

ListeningQuietly · 17/11/2020 13:19

He was born on November 5, 2002. I got bored sitting in my house at Newmarket, decided to go shopping at Cambridge, water broke unexpectedly and I was transported to Addenbrookes. Too far away to make Lakenhearh. If he had been born on Lakenjeath this wouldn't be a problem
Except that being born in the UK DOES NOT confer citizenship

see Windrush stories passim ad nauseam for the details

ProfessorSlocombe · 17/11/2020 13:19

I spent 22 years in the USAF I know all about rules for military personnel posted overseas. Once again I lived overseas 16 out of my 22 years in the military

Maybe you should have paid attention then ?

GoatCheeseTart · 17/11/2020 13:20

UK does not tax people based on their citizenship. If you were resident then that's a different matter, but renouncing your citizenship would not change this. You probably paid tax because you had UK income and your husband didn't. Nothing to do with citizenship.

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