Does anyone know how to denounce their British Citizenship

[Leaannb]

My 18 yo who is a dual citizen of the UK and US would like to denounce his British citizenship due to tax reasons. Any idea how?

This is a really peculiar thread.
OP, maybe consult a tax advisor and use the correct vocabulary to ask your questions.
As someone who has worked in USA (as a British citizen) you are basing your concerns on incorrect information, as posters here have tried to tell you.

There is more than just the tax issue.

If he needs to be in UK but is not a citizen he needs to go through all the usual Visa applications, that costs money, relies on sponsors and he is in danger of getting booted out if he looses income.

Tax is a separate issue and you need a tax advisor specialised in international taxation, a solicitor doesn't help.

In today's climate I would never renounce a citizenship. His future children may benefit from it.

A friend from the US with also an Irish passport was asked as the chances are very slim to ever live back in the US and he said he would never close a door he may need again in the future how slim the chances are.

@endofthelinefinally

This is a really peculiar thread. OP, maybe consult a tax advisor and use the correct vocabulary to ask your questions. As someone who has worked in USA (as a British citizen) you are basing your concerns on incorrect information, as posters here have tried to tell you.

That should be

"As someone who has worked in USA (as a British citizen), IMO you are basing your concerns on incorrect information".

I have Google and keep getting different responses.

Surely the U.K. government website only gives one response?

@Wolfff

I think it’s residence and domicile that count for UK tax purposes which is not the same as citizenship/passport.

Exactly. If he's just trying to avoid UK tax, it won't work. It's all about tax residence and domicile, all details as per HMRC website.

I don't think you are understanding the tax situation correctly. If he moves to the UK and is liable for tax, he will have to pay it irrespective of whether or not he is a passport holder.

Would he not have access to a military advisor who would know this? This can't be the first time they'd have dealt with this.

Here you are OP: NATO forces stationed in the UK are exempt from income tax: www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3071/pdfs/uksi_20123071_en.pdf

I wasn’t aware that citizenship had anything to do with whether you are tax or not - Bar if you are an american citizen.
Otherwise, anyone else, me included, is paying British taxes even wo being a BRITISH citizen.

I think you are looking at the issue the wrong way. You need a good accountant’s advice plus advice from the army who will have dealt with that before.

It seems a bit hasty to relinquish his British citizenship when he’s about to come and work here for 4 years. What if he decides to stay? Falls in love with a local girl who won’t move for example?

The rules differ for Military personnel on deployment.

They are typically exempt from personal income tax while deployed. If he's being provided with benefits (e.g. housing on deployment) the Military would usually cover that cost. He can give it up fine, and it's unlikely to cause him an immigration issue either whilst he's in service (assuming he's deployed to a US base). He may want to think longer term as to whether he might want UK citizenship post military career.

That being said, unlike unlike US nationality denouncing UK citizenship is irrelevant to personal tax liability. The UK taxes based on domicile / residence subject to tax treaty conditions (if applicable).

I'm astonished he's not been advised on this topic. The Military (particularly US) have a very thorough & specific approach to this kind of thing..... You may want to refer him to his commanding officer.

There is a double taxation treaty between Uk and us. Unless he’s earning money in both, or living in one and earning in another then the treaty should apply.

You need proper tax advice, not legal advice on how to renounce citizenship. Renouncing UK citizenship won't, as far as I know, remove any liability to UK tax.

Why would he use NHS when he has always used US military benefits. He has joined the US military and being stationed in the UK in January. Yes with his cola pay, hazard duty pay and bonuses he will have to pay tax
Because he might not be in the US military forever? Because he might decide one day that he would much prefer living in the UK, maybe meet someone based in the UK he wants to commit to but instead of being able to do so easy, having access to the nhs from day 1, he would need to pay for a visa and pay health surcharge.

He wants to renounce to something because possibly 4 years of paying tax that he could potentially benefit from for over 60 years.

It's madness and as a mum, I would be horrified at this consideration rather than encouraging it.

Odd thing to do...Instead get some proper advice from an accountant/professional who can give advice on the best possible way to sort out your tax situation.

I work with soldiers- UK admittedly but the military has a lot of services to support them and their families, the army legal service would probably either advise or point you at the correct advice. Surely US Military would have similar? I would start there to at least make enquiries. Surely legal services will have some someone who can advise on the citizenship issue and then signpost you to an accountant. Your DS won't be the first.

Either way, good luck getting it sorted.

@MerchantOfVenom

I am always amazed at the sorts of things people use Mumsnet for.

In the time it would have taken you to type ‘denounce UK citizenship’ in google, you’d have the answer.

But instead, you type out a much wordier post on MN, hit send, and then sit and wait patiently for everyone else to do your googling for you.

🤣🤣🤣 quite

Might be completely wrong here but I thought there would be exemptions with military payments? To take it to the extreme isn’t it like saying soldiers who were in Iraq would have to pay tax in Iraq on their US military payments? That seems absurd, they would be taxed in the US on their US military payments. Or are you saying that because he is a UK citizen that this somehow overrides any usual military arrangements with military pay and where it is taxed?

What income do you think he'll be paying British Tax on?

Where's he domiciled?

Renounce not denounce

Your sliding door analogy is totally false. You can't claim British Citizenship just by birth anyway. So whether he was born in Cambridge or not in immaterial. He must have claimed his citizenship through one of his parents.

I want to know the shopping trip story too, OP . I reckon its because you were posted on a US military base in the UK which is considered US "soil". But you decided to leave it to go shopping, had a dramatic waters-breaking-in-Marks-and-Spencer moment, and we're taken to a UK hospital before 1983(?). So your DS was automatically a UK citizen as he was born in the UK...

I know nothing about the tax implications, though, sorry. But as pp have said, I understood UK tax was based only on residence (with various exclusions for double taxation, non domiciled people and so on) which is different to the US. But your tax advisor would be able to help.

I'm dual UK/US too, but from the other direction. My dad is a US citizen, but I was born in the UK and have never lived in the US. I've never earned enough to be liable for tax in the US and have no intention to live there. DS can't claim US citizenship through me because I have never lived there, nor through his grandad because he's now lived in the UK for too long! I have no right to vote in US elections as I have no legitimate ties to a state. I looked into renouncing US citizenship (around the Time of Trump, as it happens) and as heron said, I had to prove I had all my US tax returns in order and pay some obscene amount of money, which I decided was more than my principles were worth. (Dad also looked into becoming a UK citizen at the same time, as he has lived and worked here for 45 years...but couldn't face the test!). But also, citizenship is a bit weird, and I feel "tied" to the American part of my family, and dual citizenship is part of my "heritage", so I would feel a bit sad to give it up, even though it provides me with no tangible benefit and a bit of financial stress. I appreciate you're in a different situation though, and your DS may not feel that link to the UK as part of his heritage at the moment.

This is a really bad idea. We have dual citizenship and in this situation it's the US one that causes problems due to the global taxation, not the UK.

If he's earning enough to think this might be needed then he is earning enough to pay for professional advice, as he is currently being led astray by his internet searches or whoever is suggesting this plan.

Aaargh, no, your 18 year old DS wouldn't have been born before 1983?!! I had a brain fart, and thought we were still in 2000 . Not sure where the claim to UK citizenship comes from, then.

I want to know the shopping trip story too, OP grin. I reckon its because you were posted on a US military base in the UK which is considered US "soil". But you decided to leave it to go shopping, had a dramatic waters-breaking-in-Marks-and-Spencer moment, and we're taken to a UK hospital before 1983(?). So your DS was automatically a UK citizen as he was born in the UK...

OP's son is 18 though, so can't have been born any earlier than 2001.