What would you think if your Mum sent you this?

[Autumnleavesfluttering]

"Perhaps that's how it is for every woman. The repression your female ancestors suffered accumulates over the generations, resentment building in daughter, granddaughter and great-granddaughter like hair clogging a washing machine filter, until along comes a child who is so pumped full of fury that she kicks all obstructions out of the way.

I became the receptacle for her pain, her fury, her bitterness...
I dragged it behind me as an ox drags its plough

• Violette Leduc, La Batarde, 1964

• from a book by Viv Albertine. I haven't read the book, so don't know the wider context.

What do you think it means? In particular, the part about the receptacle for pain etc?

@Autumnleavesfluttering

Larkin said pretty much the same thing...

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.

They may not mean to, but they do.

They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,

Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

@TheLastStarfighter

You are the child, carrying her burdens but kicking the obstacles out if the way.

She is proud of you for doing the things she couldn’t.

That's what I got from it too.

@cbt944

You should read the book, "To Throw Away Unopened'. It's about Viv's relationship with her mother as her mother is dying, and a whole lot of other things. She really loves her mother.

This. The book is about Viv's life after The Slits and her fight to become a mother, suffering from cancer, divorce, then her relationship with her mother and later her father through their old age and deaths, and Viv's growing understanding of what her mother went through. I think your mother is saying that she bore all that suffering and she sees you, or maybe the next generation, freeing themself from all of that. I'd see it as a positive thing (not that my mother would even know who Viv Albertine is)

@HubrisPolice

If my mother sent that, she'd be trying to co-opt my emotions.

Of course she never would send it, because she doesn't like those nasty feminists who burn bras, although how dare anyone not give her equal pay, but meanwhile it's men's job to look after women.

But if she did... Well, she's the Universal Victim, the Martyr of All the World. She would send it if by some unhappy chance she'd been unable to avoid knowing (and avoiding knowing is her speciality) that she had been the cause of real pain to me. As this worldview is not allowed, she would immediately explain that SHE is the one who really has the pain – of all the generations, forsooth! – and aren't I lucky that I'm the one who gets to kick all the obstacles out of the way and not have to be in pain? Unlike Poooooor Herrrrr.

I remember talking to my (emotionally and sometimes physically abusive,completely dismissive,sometimes neglectful) mother and she started whinging about how traumatised SHE was from raising me.

I completely lost it.

It's a really great book - highly recommend it. If I remember correctly the resentment isn't about resentment between daughter and mother, but rather resentment against the world's expectations of women, and how younger women can always break away from those expectations more than their mothers. I don't think it's a bad thing, but why don't you ask her?

I would see it as a feminist comment, possibly a gesture of solidarity, that both of you have suffered from the sexism of the world.
I'm not sure I agree with it. Would feel a bit like I was claiming other people's suffering for my own. Without denying that history and attitudes echo down the generations.

So I guess thinking about it, there is resentment but in a good way! A kind of wishing that they could have broken those ceiling too. I think it's positive!

You can't leave that unanswered.
She clearly wants to open a dialogue.
I think she is saying that she is proud of you for your spirit and courage, she is wryly acknowledging that things weren't easy between you but that she understands why.
My DD has always challenged things, I'm proud of her for that.

I’d think she’d been hacked.

I assume that in your mother's case it was meant in a positive way toward you, but personally, I don't care for the quote and would think my mother had lost her mind if she sent it to me. It's not really "us", at all.

Is she dealing with her own relationship with her own mum?

I read it (especially as you say you're both feminists in alignment in your thinking) as her acknowledging that female repression is handed down, in part by our parents, including our mothers. That she was repressed by her mother and that (whether she tried to avoid it or not) she also handed pain and fury down to you. And that you seem to have finally broken that - kicking it all away to find more liberation than she has managed to.

Really interesting to see the different ways we're reading this, presumably each through the lens of our own intergenerational relationships.

She's trying to draw you out isn't she, she wants to see what you make of it, she wants you to reveal yourself without her first revealing herself, I would put the ball back in her court and ask her what it means to her

Given the ambiguity and depending on whether her interpretation matches what the text intended, it could be anything from pride at you being driven and unwilling to be crushed by societal misogyny to a way of insulting you. It may be no one who is not her daughter will really know what was intended.

I think the quoter is referring to her mother being the child full of fury that kicks all the obstacles out they way, and she (the daughter) becomes her receptacle for pain.

@nocoolnamesleft

If my mum sent me this, I'd think that she, as a feminist, is proud of her feminist daughter, but regrets the shit that society has dumped on women.

This exactly - I think she's coming to a point in her life where she is fed up of putting up with all the crap women just take as their lot in life (is she perimenopausal or menopausal? This time of life you often get to the end of your all your fucks so you don't have any more to give)

This is a 'we are on the same side' moment and that maybe you or your daughter/future daughter will be the one to finally use all that generational pain to carve a new way and not put up with it anymore.

She's acknowledging the links that bind us through our female ancestors.

I find it very moving.

You should talk to her about it.

Maybe just send her a "Lol"

@TheYearOfSmallThings

@Autumnleavesfluttering Your mum is very clever, or pretentious, or both.

I wouldn't read anything extra into the quote because it's a quote.

It's mainly a compliment saying you are a fiery advocate for yourself/women.

So she just sent it apropos of nothing?

Honestly, if my mum sent me that quote along with the typed message your mum sent you, it would bring tears to my eyes. I would read that she has tried her best to fight many battles in her time and place in society and then along came you would just fought and fought and refused to be quelled. I would read that she is immensely proud of you but perhaps is not used to saying those types of things aloud.

I know that alcohol and 'drunkness' is not to be recommended however my mother is Irish Catholic and my father was Goan Catholic and they could only express love, pride, emotion etc once they had a few drinks (in my mothers case only one glass of rum). When sober - 99.9% of the time - those "ridiculous notions" would/could never be spoken about. To some, alcohol briefly enables you to say what's in your heart without embarrassment.

If I received that from my mum I would well up with proud tears but I would also know that she'd been on the rum :-) x

Yeah I too think your mum is proud of you for clearing the path she herself and others before her could not/did not. You've clearly kicked butt and she's proud of you.

I see it as a positive message, it reminds me of the part in 'The Help' where the mother says to her daughter "Courage sometimes skips a generation. Thank you for bringing it back to our family."

I read it (especially as you say you're both feminists in alignment in your thinking) as her acknowledging that female repression is handed down, in part by our parents, including our mothers. That she was repressed by her mother and that (whether she tried to avoid it or not) she also handed pain and fury down to you. And that you seem to have finally broken that - kicking it all away to find more liberation than she has managed to

Me too. Isn't it a chance just to open up a discussion which might resolve the bad stuff between you? I think I'd have to ask what that meant to her personally? But I am someone who would always rather know than die wondering.

What do you think it means? In particular, the part about the receptacle for pain etc?*

If this wasn't sent with any preface or even a simple "what do you think of this?" or "this moved me and I wanted to share it" - I'd ignore it.

This is the type of mind fuckery that my own mother would send to me expecting to either disturb me or open up what would end up being a very toxic conversation.

If I felt like I had to respond I'd simply reply "thanks mum" and if I had my petty pants on I'd add a smiley face

Don't waste anymore of your time on this, if your relationship is anything like mine and mummy dearest - it's not worth it.

I tend to agree with @TheLastStarfighter’s interpretation, plus it’s a positive spin, so a safe stance to take in any event.

To finish “This Be The Verse” that @JinglingHellsBells was quoting, since the last verse is maybe the most apposite....

Man hands on misery to man
It deepens like a coastal shelf
Get out as early as you can
And don’t have any kids yourself.