To tell teacher friend about grammar error?

[ImaSababa]

A friend of mine is a primary school teacher, and is making and selling cushions on Facebook. Lovely. The problem is, they're riddled with mistakes, such as "Christmas at the Johnson's" when surely is should be "Johnsons'".

Should I tell her?

I once drew attention to my daughter's head teacher because her newsletter was going out every week littered with spelling and grammar errors. I had assumed it was typed up by the school secretary whose first language wasn't English. Unfortunately it turned out it was head teacher's own "work". She now absolutely hates me.

I don't know which is worse: the fact that she originally sent it out with all of the errors (especially considering that she most probably typed it on a device connected to the internet, so she could have easily checked) or that she blames you for helping her to learn how to do her job properly.

Most people would be mortified and very grateful that somebody had tipped them the wink that they need to brush up on their skills (or at least check and correct it before sending), not brazen it out and hate you for sparing her future professional embarrassment.

You might be the only one who has said anything to her, but there will be other parents shaking their heads every week when they open up the email and thinking of complaining, but not being as brave as you were. I really don't get all of the people who would minimise and consider as irrelevant the fact that an institution dedicated to helping children learn is so blatantly run by people who themselves have never learned the basics. We're not talking about a tradesman who knows his actual job inside out, but who submits invoices containing a few spelling errors; this is a school headteacher!

@lazylinguist I agree, the key people to ask for this kind of thing are often MFL teachers (I think that's what you are? and it's what I was) as they really need to know and understand and be able to explain grammar.

Yes I am . I'm still of a generation that wasn't really taught English grammar at school, but I mostly absorbed it via Latin and MFL. And of course, like most MFL teachers in English schools, I've spent my career having to do a fair bit of explaining English grammar in MFL lessons in order to help kids understand how French, German and Spanish work. I also teach an adult German class - they are fascinated by how much they don't know about English, and always want me to do more grammar with them!

[quote lazylinguist]**@lazylinguist I agree, the key people to ask for this kind of thing are often MFL teachers (I think that's what you are? and it's what I was) as they really need to know and understand and be able to explain grammar.

Yes I am . I'm still of a generation that wasn't really taught English grammar at school, but I mostly absorbed it via Latin and MFL. And of course, like most MFL teachers in English schools, I've spent my career having to do a fair bit of explaining English grammar in MFL lessons in order to help kids understand how French, German and Spanish work. I also teach an adult German class - they are fascinated by how much they don't know about English, and always want me to do more grammar with them![/quote]
yes, difference between direct and indirect object so crucial to German.

I also used to struggle with students who had been taught that a verb was "a doing word" so when asked to think of verbs, would offer only very active ones - and in the gerund which is actually a noun! - jumping, skipping, running - when I was hoping for eat, play, have, give, like, love. Had a big debate once with a yr 8 top set about why there was in fact a verb in the sentence "He is very tall", and no, it wasn't very. Or he. Yes, "is" is a verb. No, I know it doesn't involve running about on a field. Yes, you do need to understand that to be able to put it in the right place in your German sentence.

I work in learning support role in a secondary school.

My boss (an English teacher) recently responded to a message with 'your welcome'.

I haven't told her.

@Chocolatedeficitdisorder I think anyone can have an off day. I wrote "are" instead of "our" yesterday and I'm an English teacher and definitely know the difference!

It is even worse if you are a lawyer like I am who is sent documents every week by clients who want me to improve them ( legally) and then the dilemma is if you then also correct poor grammar. I usually do so as it can affect the meaning of the word., Eg On "the licence", "I license the rights" and clients often get that wrong particularly if using a US grammar checker. (c is the noun and s it the verb)

I was a witness to a violent incident and had to give a statement to the police. They asked me to write what had happened ahead of the interview.
"Oh, this is great" said the nice pc as she read it, "Do you mind if I just copy this and then you sign it?". Of course I didn't mind.

Except that her version was littered with mistakes,both spelling and punctuation! I gritted my teeth and signed it as it didn't seem the right moment for an English lesson. But she literally had the correct version in front of her and improved it worse!

I've almost let it go now.

Best not to buy cushions for Christmas this year.

If you do, just have 'Christmas with John and Carol' . Perfect, no arguments.

Hang on, they may want 'Carol and John' ..

Yes, "is" is a verb. No, I know it doesn't involve running about on a field.

Yup. My favourite thing is to tell them there's a set order for different categories of adjective in English. They don't believe me. So I ask them why can't you say "I have a blue, big car"... Minds. Blown.

campion I’ve seen that a lot too.
I’d actually drafted my own when I was a witness to nasty road rage attack. (I’m at the bar) Worked.
A lot of the time witnesses will say - ‘hang on, that’s not accurate, not what I said etc (although you are signing to say you’ve read it and that it is accurate). Sometimes a rogue grammar error ‘they’ instead of ‘he’ etc is at the heart of a line of cross examination - wastes time and some judges can’t rise above a comment about ‘standards’

@campion

I was a witness to a violent incident and had to give a statement to the police. They asked me to write what had happened ahead of the interview. "Oh, this is great" said the nice pc as she read it, "Do you mind if I just copy this and then you sign it?". Of course I didn't mind.

Except that her version was littered with mistakes,both spelling and punctuation! I gritted my teeth and signed it as it didn't seem the right moment for an English lesson. But she literally had the correct version in front of her and improved it worse!

I've almost let it go now.

I had my grammar corrected when I was living in England. My flatmate assumed she had to be right when we differed (because she was English? I am Irish). When I rejected her correction, she told me she was brought up properly!! 😂
She may well have been, but the savage nuns sure beat good English into my Mum and her sisters.

@Chocolatedeficitdisorder I think anyone can have an off day. I wrote "are" instead of "our" yesterday and I'm an English teacher and definitely know the difference!

@Sometimesonly I agree. If only that was the only error...

I gritted my teeth and signed it as it didn't seem the right moment for an English lesson. But she literally had the correct version in front of her and improved it worse!

I've almost let it go now.

Oooooooh, you would NOT have been the only one. This is the problem, though, when you feel guilty or petty for simply wanting to use correct language. Even if she thought that you were using incorrect language, as long as it isn't incoherent, which it wouldn't be - because it's right it was your statement, not hers; and yet we're the arrogant ones for wanting our own writing to reflect us

I think there are a lot of people out there who genuinely don't realise that there is a single, standard, correct form for language to take (albeit with acceptable variations in a few cases) and that it's all open to individual choice. Just as you might freely opt for 'you're amazing', 'you're brilliant' or 'you're wonderful', you have the exact same freedom of choice over 'you're amazing' or 'your amazing'. If you're at liberty to choose 'also' or 'as well' as a variation of 'too', why would you then be wrong to keep the word but render it as 'to' or even 'two'?!

Best not to buy cushions for Christmas this year.

If you do, just have 'Christmas with John and Carol' . Perfect, no arguments.

Hang on, they may want 'Carol and John' ..

Co-incidentally, I actually spoke to them the other week about this very issue. Carole is furious that everybody consistently misses the 'e' off the end of her name and Jon gets so irritated when people insist on sticking an 'h' in his name

Surely all her customers will be pissed off when they receive it? If I got an Xmas at the janeway's I would ask for a correct one.

@SummerHouse

Oh who cares. No one agrees. I just find ways not to use apostrophe's.

Hahahahaha! LOL

@ImaSababa

It's a shortening of "at the Johnsons' house".

I just think she ought to know.

It's a collective group - the Johnsons are one entity so it is right to use an apostrophe before the 's' to indicate singular possession. The Johnson family collectively own the home. E.g. you say the team's ball and not the teams' ball as team is a collective noun.

Your friend is correct.

Surely you should tell her. Firstly, she is a primary teacher who will be teaching English and how to use the apostrophe. She doesn't want to look like an ill-informed teacher. Also, the people who've purchased the cushions may not want them when they are availed of the truth by an eagle-eyed visitor. They might ask for their money back. These are customised items which can't easily be sold again, even if the error is discovered on collection.

A school near me had a massive sign saying 'Visitor's Entrance'. A friend pointed out that perhaps it should read 'Visitors' Entrance', and the Headteacher responded that only one visitor at a time uses the entrance, so the existing version of the sign is technically correct. Lol. You can just about make a case for that, but I'd have thought that changing it would have been better.

Johnsons refers to lots of big and little people with the surname Johnson. It isn't a collective noun like pack, or pride. Sometimes the building which houses the individuals is used to denote the group: 'the school's choice' or ' the nest's mealtime had arrived'.

You could say the Smith household or 'It's a Smith house, that one', if a family owned a few in the town.

Johnsons refers to lots of big and little people with the surname Johnson.

Correct - but I still wouldn't try Googling 'lots of big and little johnsons'

Your all thick.

Its the Johnsonseseses’s’s’s’s.

Think of all the puppy’s hoove dyed from all the misteaks.

run’s away

It's a collective group - the Johnsons are one entity so it is right to use an apostrophe before the 's' to indicate singular possession. The Johnson family collectively own the home. E.g. you say the team's ball and not the teams' ball as team is a collective noun.

No, it doesn't work like that. There is no such person as "The Johnson", whereas there is such a thing as "the team". If you wanted to talk about, say, the cars belonging to the various football players in the team, you would talk about the players' cars. If you said "the player's cars" you would be referring a number of cars belonging to one of the players. The collective term is players. In the example given by OP, the collective term is Johnsons, therefore when you are talking about something belonging to the Johnsons has to have the apostrophe after the s.

You're wrong. Christmas at the Johnson's is correct.

No one in their right mind buys or does not buy cushions based on grammar

I may well not be in my right mind, but I wouldn't buy a cushion with incorrect grammar on it in a million years. If it was for me, it would irritate me for ever, and I wouldn't be able to bear the thought of inflicting it on anyone else.

@FirstClassFlightHome

You're wrong. Christmas at the Johnson's is correct.

It really isn't. "The Johnsons" is a plural noun. If you stick the apostrophe before the s, you make it a single noun. If you intended to invite the whole family to a party, would you say you were planning to invite the Johnsons or the Johnson?