To sign up at the surgery as ‘Dr’

[Chocolatebutton43]

I got my PhD two months ago, moved to a new place and signed up to a new doctor’s surgery and dental practice.

Filling in the forms, I got a bit carried away with my new title and ticked the ‘dr’ box! I’ve been doing it a lot lately for silly little things partly ‘cause I’m just happy to have finished and passed my degree and also because I relish that I am no longer defined by my marital status.

But, I now need to visit the surgery and I feel like an idiot. The form also had occupation so the doctor will know I’m not a medical doctor. Is he/she going to think I am a total prat for using Dr outside my work and at the doctor’s surgery of all places? Cringe

@JinglingHellsBells

More to the point why do people WITH PhDs not use the title as dr?

Now, that would be an interesting discussion.

I expect their answer is it's not relevant in day to day life and can cause confusion.

For men I think they get asked their title far less than women so it comes up less often. DH only uses his in financial situations. But I suspect the reverse snobbery from people like you is another reason people hide it.

FWIW I've never had anyone confused by my title and I've never been asked for medical assistance on a plane. Most of the medics I know don't use their title when they fly because they don't want to be asked to help in a medical emergency so relying on titles on the passenger list is a rubbish way to get help.

I wonder if your GP brother thought it was a pleasant joke too? A lot of medical doctors would find that very offensive. They are doctors by occupation, PhD academics are not.

Yes, of course he did. The idea of a medic being 'offended' is weird - they know what the title means in both contexts, surgeons not being Dr etc etc.
I dispute that 'a lot of doctors would find that very offensive'. I think you may have just made that up based on your own prejudices.

You seem to know what a lot of people think, medical dr’s, PhD holders, general public, and feel able speak (post) on their behalf. Do you have some special ability? Or are you putting words in people’s mouths to fit your narrative?

Why would I have a narrative or need to ‘put words in people’s mouths?’

I simply know a lot of people with academic PhDs (including my husband and old uni friends), come from a family of medical doctors and work closely with medical doctors 5 days a week, plus a couple of PhD academics. And I’ve worked in universities while studying.

I know full well most medical doctors would be highly offended by academics with PhDs claiming a medical doctor is not a real doctor (even if meant in jest).

I really don't think there are groups of medics getting offended that people with PhDs call themselves doctors - they get it.

I remember coming to the end of my doctorate and injuring my back so sitting for long periods was painful, not ideal when you're in the write up phase! I went to my doctor for painkillers and we spent ages talking about the the topic of my research ( in no way medical related) and when I left he said ' hopefully next time I see you I'll be calling you doctor'

Except in one particular set of circumstances, where I was treated better, listened to more, taken more seriously: this was in circumstances around healthcare.

Yes, I know what you mean. Almost as if, far from being 'offended', medics accord others with the earned title of Dr with respect.

I know full well most medical doctors would be highly offended by academics with PhDs claiming a medical doctor is not a real doctor (even if meant in jest).

I doubt they'd be 'highly offended'. However, you've got my anecdote arse about face. It was a medic calling a PhD a 'real doctor'. PhDs tend not to actually go around claiming that - IRL there's generally mutual respect.

because the majority of posters with PhDs or who know people with them are not experiencing this confusion and embarrassment you're talking about

A lot of posters have experienced confusion and embarrassment (both directly or from friends and family with PhDs) they just seem to be selectively ignored 🙄

When I got my PhD , my Rev Dr uncle (retired medical missionary) sent a card saying it was nice to have a real doctor in the family at last.

In our family we call the PhDs the real doctors and the medics the useful doctors. And for the person taking offence on behalf of the medic DB you've missed that the person making the joke was themselves a medic. Medics are secure enough in their status to cope with a mild and obscure joke.

This does all highlight that while medics and PhDs aren't worried at all about the other using the titles (barring those like Gillian McKeith who use them to deceive, I wonder what medics do if they are in a university, do they drop their curtesy title because in it implies a research qualification they don't have?) there are less qualified members of society who do take offence on behalf of others, possibly to hide their own ignorance.

I don't use my title in normal life. My doctorate is irrelevant to my job, and there is no reason for it to come up in general conversation. For example, a lot of people have a title on their work ID badge at our place - Mr. James Brown or Dr Sian Green. But you don't have to, so mine just says Scarby Nine.
However, whenever I am forced to put a title by one of those forms with a drop-down menu, I always click Dr. I have always hated Miss which would be my other option and I am a Dr, so why not?
A few years back I was stunned when someone at a conference spotted my name with the (forced by the enrolment form) Dr on the attendance list and commented that they thought it was pretentious to use the title because it wasn't relevant to my job and I wasn't medical (which would also have been irrelevant to my job but apparently 'allowed').
I was stunned but quick enough to point out that her badge said Mrs, which was also irrelevant to her job. 'But I'm married!' she said, proudly. I thought of the four years of blood, sweat and toil I went through to get my PhD and wondered how the two achievements could be compared...

A lot of posters have experienced confusion and embarrassment (both directly or from friends and family with PhDs) they just seem to be selectively ignored 🙄

You must be reading a different thread to me then.
There have been some examples of minor confusion being used to explain how easy it is to explain the difference....
There certainly hasn't been numerous examples of mass confusion or embarrassment

I wonder what medics do if they are in a university, do they drop their curtesy title because in it implies a research qualification they don't have?

Again implying medical doctors are unworthy of the title doctor?

In the medical world ‘Dr’ is not merely a title or research qualification, it’s an occupation and profession. Which tends to involve life and death decisions on a regular basis, a great deal of responsibility, gruelling night shifts and the power to heal people. Along with extensive knowledge of all 3 sciences, maths, anatomy, physiology, pharmaceuticals and continuous gruelling exams that continue way beyond finishing med school. Few academics face the same challenges or have people’s lives in their hands on a daily basis.

It’s not a ‘curtesy title’ it’s an indication of professional occupation.

Again implying medical doctors are unworthy of the title doctor?

It's not. No one has suggested that medical doctors shouldn't be 'doctor'. It's a fair comment though. If people with PhD's shouldn't use 'dr' in a hospital because it's confusing why doesn't it apply the other way round?

If your husband using the term 'dr' causes so much confusion and embarrassment then that's fine for him not to use it, but why have such an issue with the people with PhDs on this thread who have told you it does not cause confusion and embarrassment in their lives?

You're missing the point again. If a medic is working in a uni - maybe in the process of doing a PhD themselves - then the boot would be on the other foot re the (largely fictitious or overstated) confusion which might arise. Their occupation in that context would be 'research student', the norm in that context would be that Dr= PhD.

If people with PhD's shouldn't use 'dr' in a hospital because it's confusing why doesn't it apply the other way round?

Exactly. The title has a very specific meaning in the context of a university, just as it has in a hospital. If it’s ‘confusing’ for an academic to use their title in a hospital, obviously the opposite applies in a university.

It's not uncommon for medics to go back to university once they've qualified as Drs. They might even do a bachelor's degree if they didn't intercalate... Unless they have a very good stipend they'll probably be doing some locum shifts to get extra money anyway, so still working as a medic as well! Certainly most of the vets who've gone back to further study have done locum shifts while studying for either a PhD or to become a human medic. Locuming pays better than usual student jobs... So you'd have the weirdness of being "Dr" at weekends but not at med school.

In Germany if you hold 2 professorships you would be Herr (or Frau) Professor Professor in formal contexts. You would be expected to use the doctoral title professionally. I'm pretty certain French qualified medical doctors have to do a doctoral level thesis to fully qualify.

I know quite a lot of people with PhDs in a variety of subjects. Most use them on formal forms/bank documents/car insurance but given how rarely you are "formally" introduced it isn't relevant socially. They're still "Joe", "Alice" "Chris" or "Jane" when we're in the sports hall, at the pub or on Facebook!

I know full well most medical doctors would be highly offended by academics with PhDs claiming a medical doctor is not a real doctor (even if meant in jest).

@RattleOfBars several academics on this thread have told stories about medical doctors making that very joke to them. I think a couple of GPS have also come on and said the same thing to OP.

I doubt even a medical doctor would have the audacity to claim to know what “most” of the profession thinks.

I find it quite funny the number of people who are convinced that Joe Public will be all confused because they had no idea that it was possible to be a Dr and not be medically qualified. That’s the same Joe Public that watched Friends in its millions, right?

@RattleOfBars

I wonder what medics do if they are in a university, do they drop their curtesy title because in it implies a research qualification they don't have?

Again implying medical doctors are unworthy of the title doctor?

In the medical world ‘Dr’ is not merely a title or research qualification, it’s an occupation and profession. Which tends to involve life and death decisions on a regular basis, a great deal of responsibility, gruelling night shifts and the power to heal people. Along with extensive knowledge of all 3 sciences, maths, anatomy, physiology, pharmaceuticals and continuous gruelling exams that continue way beyond finishing med school. Few academics face the same challenges or have people’s lives in their hands on a daily basis.

It’s not a ‘curtesy title’ it’s an indication of professional occupation.

Fgs it is an honorary title! That is how it has developed over time, and that is how the relevant convention works. Just because you don’t particularly like it or agree with it doesn’t mean it’s not the case!

Do people really honestly think they can just re-write stuff to make themselves feel better, never mind the facts? (Oh wait, they do.🙄)

Language matters! History matters! We don’t just erase stuff, make up crap and re-imagine definitions just because we want to (oh wait, we do. 🙄).

How on Earth have we got to the point where it’s all about the feelz and let’s just fuck the facts?? It’s ludicrous. Welcome to the Idiocracy.

Just to be clear - It’s not a matter of saying that medical doctors are ‘unworthy’ of the title. However the title initially applied to theologians, scholars, those who held a doctorate, and later, was extended to medical doctors as a courtesy. In other words, OP is more than entitled to use it with pride. It’s not a matter of dismissing the challenges and responsibilities of medical profession! I come from a family with a medical background, I’m well aware of what the occupation entails.

It is worth bearing in mind, though, that we are discussing it from a U.K. centric perspective (as far back as is possible) because that’s the relevant arena. It is different in other countries - Italy has already been mentioned.

@Chocolatebutton43 use your title with pride. You’ve earnt it with blood, sweat and tears I’m sure. And maybe leave this thread now, if you haven’t already, before your head explodes...

@RattleOfBars

You seem to know what a lot of people think, medical dr’s, PhD holders, general public, and feel able speak (post) on their behalf. Do you have some special ability? Or are you putting words in people’s mouths to fit your narrative?

Why would I have a narrative or need to ‘put words in people’s mouths?’

I simply know a lot of people with academic PhDs (including my husband and old uni friends), come from a family of medical doctors and work closely with medical doctors 5 days a week, plus a couple of PhD academics. And I’ve worked in universities while studying.

I know full well most medical doctors would be highly offended by academics with PhDs claiming a medical doctor is not a real doctor (even if meant in jest).

Maybe you come from a family of particularly sensitive doctors? Or have witnessed those who are of a particularly insecure disposition and so feel unable to afford respect to others without it diminishing their own standing?

It’s perfectly possible for the two sides to be mutually respectful.

several academics on this thread have told stories about medical doctors making that very joke to them

And did they find it funny or offensive when the joke was on them?
Lots of people on this thread have complained they are not seen as ‘real’ doctors because they have a PhD!

Others have said they don’t use their Dr title outside of work for fear of being seen as pretending to be a medic or pretentious.

I do think these posts get conveniently skimmed over.

Dr [name] ?
[First name], yes.

No need for a chat. I'm sure someone qualified as a medical doctor understands the title is wider than the profession! It's politeness to use any title and I'm sure they would rather be correct.

it is an honorary title! That is how it has developed over time, and that is how the relevant convention works. Just because you don’t particularly like it or agree with it doesn’t mean it’s not the case!

For academics, yes it’s a title awarded by a university for passing a doctorate or PhD. Their occupation or job could be anything; lecturer, researcher, teacher, engineer, psychologist, neuroscientist. Being a doctor isn’t their occupation.

For medical doctors it’s not only a title it’s their occupation/job/profession.

@RattleOfBars

it is an honorary title! That is how it has developed over time, and that is how the relevant convention works. Just because you don’t particularly like it or agree with it doesn’t mean it’s not the case!

For academics, yes it’s a title awarded by a university for passing a doctorate or PhD. Their occupation or job could be anything; lecturer, researcher, teacher, engineer, psychologist, neuroscientist. Being a doctor isn’t their occupation.

For medical doctors it’s not only a title it’s their occupation/job/profession.

Yes...and that has nothing at all to do with anything, really, since we’re discussing titles, not occupations.

I seem to be sounding more adamant and combative than I mean to...apologies for that!

I’m off to have a cup of coffee and some banana pancakes! Have a good day everyone.

Yes...and that has nothing at all to do with anything, really, since we’re discussing titles, not occupations.

Yes - and note in the OP 'The form also had occupation so the doctor will know I’m not a medical doctor. '

There's absolutely no confusion, and no need for false modesty. The GP may (depending on the occupation) be able to save their time and the OP's by eg assuming she can grasp statistics.
DH's doctors know that when he discusses the half-life of thyroxine or the correct dosage of potassium, he's talking based on expert knowledge not Google. It's a win-win.