To be pleased that the UK is no longer world leading

[pontypridd]

John Major said it today. I think he’s right.

Why does it matter though? Why can’t the UK just be bog standard/ normal?

@Merename yes!

Personally I wish we would learn from other countries about better democracy and ensuring that the will of the people is represented at the ballot box.

I am sure other countries look to the UK and wish they could things just as well in many areas - things that we are world beating in.

Who said best in the world equates to military or law enforcement capability? That’s more 20th century Cold War rhetoric. How about economic indicators, inward flowing investment, R&D, per capita indicators of any kind

Best in the world has many different measurements.
We can't be best in the world at everything

There are aspects of the UK that are frequently described as 'the best in the world, world beating' etc.

This includes the army - apparently they are the most well trained in the world. The SAS are the best special forces in the world. The police are the best in the world.

Maybe it's true. Who knows...

I just feel using this kind of language perpetuates the myth that the British have a right to “lead” or “beat” when really in the 21st century we should be collaborating with countries to fix stuff.

Yep, very much agree...we can lead, we often do, but the UK doesn't have a divine right to do so..and BTW I'm also not a fan of politicians using "punching above our weight" as an expression..in my experience whilst it sounds great it often in reality means "we still want you to be able to do x, y or z but we aren't going to provide the resources".

Just a bit of perspective on the UK and our size in the world.

@pontypridd

Because I think the UK is governed by pompous twats who need taking down a peg.

Well yes, but would you want to live in a country where the government tells everyone we are a shit country to live in?

Thing is this has been said for years. It stands to reason that the countries that hold the most clout are the ones with the most money, bigger population etc...hence the US. China’s snapping at its heels though and will potentially overtake it.

It’s just what happens, leaks and troughs and all.

Tbf fair though, the industrial revolution happened here and that paved the way for the rest of the modern world as we know it now.

It would be interesting to see what Maggie Thatcher would make of it all now. She wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea but by got she took no shit!

peaks

Not just any pompous twats, M&S pompous twats.

@laudemio

Not just any pompous twats, M&S pompous twats.

Like it but they are not sexy enough for that

@pontypridd

John Major said it today. I think he’s right.

Why does it matter though? Why can’t the UK just be bog standard/ normal?

Better still don't you think if we were the lowest country and had to rely on AID parcels to survive. Maybe we could have a famine or something. I'm sure some people would find that empowering, inclusive or something of the sort.

@StrawberrySquash

When I was a child my mum said that that Britain strutted around on the world stage like it still ruled half the world and it needed to get over its delusions of empire as it was a good deal less important than it thought. She was right. And we still do, so YANBU. Only it's even more true now.

You sound like a fool apple obviously doesn't fall far from the tree

No longer world leading because they massacred our best in WW1 and WW2. I hope the big mansions and fancy cars were worth it.

@sashagabadon

I think we do punch about our weight in some areas.clinical research with regards to Covid springs to mind plus we have amazing musicians and actors and writers and sports people too. Culturally we are still influential. Other areas not so much, we are average middle of the pack and maybe that is a good thing so we do not get involved in every dispute in the world and meddle in countries where we shouldn’t but it is a role that someone needs to do. Hopefully the US will step up again with Biden or there will be a power vacuum that China will step into.

Why should we have to step up? Why are our sevice men and women disposable and not yours? Americans and America in general need to mind our own business and take care of issues at home. Like slash the military budget( getting involved) and have affordable Healthcare. But no lets let America be the world's police force...

World leading industries and services bring money into the country which helps pay for education, welfare, health service, defence and a whole range of communal benefits.

What's wrong with being good at something and other people wanting to pay for it?

@shartsi

" Being world leading attracts talent and investment and companies to the UK. You get hubs of excellence and well paid work in places like Cambridge for tech, Derby and Bristol for aerospace, Aberdeen for oil, Sheffield for metallurgy, London for finance and so on." Swedish people don't want this?

That is very much the truth. It is in our interest for UK to be on the top club in as many fields as possible. And also surely it must make you proud.

I agree OP. A country can be prosperous, peaceful, fully integrated in the international order and not aspire to be world leading. Who wants to be a bully like China or the US?
Chile, Canada, New Zealand. Australia, Sweden, Uruguay are all lovely examples of countries that are very relevant and don't have any imperialistic ambitions.

Would UK people be prepared to pay the levels of tax to benefit from Swedish & Norwegian quality of life though? Last time I was in Sweden (8 years ago) a coffee was £5, presumably because of staff costs, property prices, trade tariffs and VAT!

I wasn’t born in the uk, so maybe this is why I notice it more, but I am constantly appalled at how many British people seem to be almost gleeful in discussing their country as ‘not very good’ - be it in politics, people, even just the weather! It’s quite strange to witness so many people slating their own country and constantly referring to everywhere else (Europe, Canada etc) which are apparently ‘so much better’. I wish their was more pride in being British, and gratefulness for all the great things about it!

@Wishing14 It’s a very British thing to back the underdog and be self-deprecating. Not to blow one’s own trumpet. Bragging is for foreigners!

I think the problem is here, every time things seem to be going well, something bad happens. So it’s better to downplay everything.

I know we have it ‘good’ here but I think a lot of people share frustration that it could be so much better.

I’d love it if we were world leading in other areas. How about happiness indicators, healthcare, social support, environment. Especially with the COP 26 round the corner plus post covid recovery can we not become world leading in blazing a trail for innovative new jobs, technology, ideas for a better future?

I do think it is important to aspire to be great at something but I think Britain is failing. We want to be world leaders yet we have many of our people using food banks. We want to be world leaders yet our education system is consistently ranked far down the table. We want to be world leaders yet we are a hugely unequal society. We have a very poor mental health system.

I would like to see us becoming world leaders at fixing some of these issues, and maybe then we could ACTUALLY become world leaders, instead of falsely claiming so. What I like about New Z is that they place emphasis on a happiness economy: they recognise that this is hugely important for a strong economy.

@Wishing14

I wasn’t born in the uk, so maybe this is why I notice it more, but I am constantly appalled at how many British people seem to be almost gleeful in discussing their country as ‘not very good’ - be it in politics, people, even just the weather! It’s quite strange to witness so many people slating their own country and constantly referring to everywhere else (Europe, Canada etc) which are apparently ‘so much better’. I wish their was more pride in being British, and gratefulness for all the great things about it!

I agree. I think it is a product of our adversarial politics. Ie two parties that do oppose each other ( although do work together at times) So people feel obliged to rubbish what the opposite party is doing and play down gov success. They cannot be objective imo. If labour were in charge right now, they would mostly be doing the exact same stuff and all the Tory supporters would be the ones doing the criticising. Being proud to be British is a more right wing trait here, not sure why , hence labour find it hard to be pratriotic and that’s partly why Boris won a landslide in December. I think Keir understands this though and if he is strategic will try and re position labour as a bit more proud of the uk

@sashagabadon, what does "financial innovation" mean? When I read that all I can think of is transnational tax avoidance and the disastrous debt-reselling schemes that brought about the 2008 financial crisis.

I looked up with Major said: