To be pleased that the UK is no longer world leading

[pontypridd]

John Major said it today. I think he’s right.

Why does it matter though? Why can’t the UK just be bog standard/ normal?

" Being world leading attracts talent and investment and companies to the UK. You get hubs of excellence and well paid work in places like Cambridge for tech, Derby and Bristol for aerospace, Aberdeen for oil, Sheffield for metallurgy, London for finance and so on."
Swedish people don't want this?

@pontypridd

Because I think the UK is governed by pompous twats who need taking down a peg.

The phrase 'cutting off one's nose to spite one's face' springs to mind...

The phrase 'cutting off one's nose to spite one's face' springs to mind

Which is exactly what's happening at the moment with our current Government's attitude.

A Government that repeatedly uses the phrase 'world beating'

(See test and trace for example)

I think we underestimate our country sometimes and we moan too much. It’s likely we’ll be one of the first countries in the world to roll out a vaccination programme. Are people happy? No, they are moaning and being as cynical as possible.
Plus people come from all over the world to access our healthcare. I was talking to a very wealthy lady pre Covid, she had come to London for surgery. I asked why she would come here and not her home country. She said doctors there are untrustworthy, only interested in money and she did not Trust the treatment. She said we had honest doctors in the U.K. that were not motivated by money but by giving good healthcare. I had never really considered that before.

@Sohardtochooseausername

“World leading” is imperialist nonsense.

Sounds like paranoid colonial guilt. Being world leading means being the best at something. What it got to do with imperialism. It’s a shame how out society has become obsessed with mediocrity, being middle of the road. Actually not even middle of the road, just competitive at being the worst at everything, everyone’s a winner mentality. It doesn’t make you an imperialist or shown off to want to have the biggest enterprises listed on your markets, to be the first at innovation and invention, to push the boundaries of achievement. It just means you want to be part of a society that engages its brain and celebrates success, not applauding people all day long for being underachievers, because somehow it’s nice to be nice.

What do you mean by world leading @pontypridd

I think we are doing quite well with deaths from Covid - only beaten by the US on that score.

We are world leading for having a bumbling leader rather than a clear cut decisive leadership.

Personally, I don't feel we are too bad a country - let's face it there are worse but we could also do a whole lot better.

World leading at football - not since 1966.

We had an empire once - best not mention that - ours was not a great record but then the Roman Empire was refiled like ours so perhaps world leading in being berated for the sins of our fathers...

Or world leading at something else.... I think we tend to be pretty good at not taking things too seriously...well we were until Covid came along and that's all put paid to that.

Drinking - now that's something we are good at

was not refiled like ours....

oops I give up...reviled ....

Oh and just a timely reminder...being world leading means you can be the first to develop a viable vaccine to counter a global pandemic. I wonder if being middle of the road and having a warm fuzzy feeling would be a good substitute for this.

You sound bitter and full of self-loathing. I wonder why people like you hate this country so much. If you like Sweden that much, move there!

Personally, I don't feel we are too bad a country - let's face it there are worse but we could also do a whole lot better

Generally, we are great at a lot of things. Many things we should be really proud of.

There are things though that do let us down - and if people could see other countries and how they do things, then they could see that we could be up there as world leaders.

A little thing - I was in Norway last year. Most supermarkets had the option to put in plastic bottles in for recycling. You got some money back to spend in the shop. I have seen this trialled here but not taken off. Why not?

The streets in some countries are so clean. No litter and people care about how tidy they are.

Attitudes to cycling - just look at the Netherlands and how good they are.

Attitudes to inner city pollution - many European cities have clean air zones.

Attitudes to early years education. Could we do better?

There are so many good things about this country - but I think that we could learn a lot from other countries as well.

@sst1234 I’m not paranoid and I don’t feel guilty about imperialism because i was born long after we stopped being an empire.

I just feel using this kind of language perpetuates the myth that the British have a right to “lead” or “beat” when really in the 21st century we should be collaborating with countries to fix stuff.

It’s likely we’ll be one of the first countries in the world to roll out a vaccination programme
China have already vaccinated about 100,000 people against covid

@chomalungma

The phrase 'cutting off one's nose to spite one's face' springs to mind

Which is exactly what's happening at the moment with our current Government's attitude.

A Government that repeatedly uses the phrase 'world beating'

(See test and trace for example)

True. I'd dearly love to see them voted out, but I'm not prepared to wish our country to be destroyed just to achieve that. Instead, I'm always secretly hoping we claw our way out of this mess AND replace this set of jokers with some more competent people who don't want children, creative types, the disabled and the self-employed to starve.

America got rid of their idiot in power. If we vote in Boris again... I really have no words to describe us.

@chomalungma

Personally, I don't feel we are too bad a country - let's face it there are worse but we could also do a whole lot better

Generally, we are great at a lot of things. Many things we should be really proud of.

There are things though that do let us down - and if people could see other countries and how they do things, then they could see that we could be up there as world leaders.

A little thing - I was in Norway last year. Most supermarkets had the option to put in plastic bottles in for recycling. You got some money back to spend in the shop. I have seen this trialled here but not taken off. Why not?

The streets in some countries are so clean. No litter and people care about how tidy they are.

Attitudes to cycling - just look at the Netherlands and how good they are.

Attitudes to inner city pollution - many European cities have clean air zones.

Attitudes to early years education. Could we do better?

There are so many good things about this country - but I think that we could learn a lot from other countries as well.

Ah is that the same Norway that has the 8th largest oil industry and 3rd largest gas industry in the world. Also has the worlds largest sovereign wealth fund at over $1trillon, all built on the back of....yes you guessed it....oil. Great to have green credentials within your own country when you are polluting the rest of the world.

When I was a child my mum said that that Britain strutted around on the world stage like it still ruled half the world and it needed to get over its delusions of empire as it was a good deal less important than it thought. She was right.

You reckon? Personally I think she sold you a load of cockcustard but hey .... who am I to argue?

Ah is that the same Norway that has the 8th largest oil industry and 3rd largest gas industry in the world. Also has the worlds largest sovereign wealth fund at over $1trillon, all built on the back of....yes you guessed it....oil. Great to have green credentials within your own country when you are polluting the rest of the world

That's the one.

But it's not just Norway that does this.
Sweden, Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands.

It's a little thing - but it helps.

As I said, there are many things we do well in this country, But there are things that other countries do well and we can learn from them rather than having the arrogance to think we have nothing to learn.

@MagicoRomantico

It’s likely we’ll be one of the first countries in the world to roll out a vaccination programme China have already vaccinated about 100,000 people against covid

I did say one of the first. We also have quite a few thousand people on vaccines trials in the U.K., maybe 30,000 or so if you add all the trials up - not too shabby either

[quote Sohardtochooseausername]@sst1234 I’m not paranoid and I don’t feel guilty about imperialism because i was born long after we stopped being an empire.

I just feel using this kind of language perpetuates the myth that the British have a right to “lead” or “beat” when really in the 21st century we should be collaborating with countries to fix stuff.[/quote]
I hear you. But why get hung up on identity politics and language. Actions matter. Using world beating implies no such thing as imperialist....it implies being the best at something, which can be quantified quite easily through various units of measurement. And where are you getting the idea of ‘right’ to lead or beat. Do athletes go onto the track feeling they have a right to win, they just work at it and have a competitive spirit. Honestly your argument doesn’t make sense to me.

@chomalungma

Ah is that the same Norway that has the 8th largest oil industry and 3rd largest gas industry in the world. Also has the worlds largest sovereign wealth fund at over $1trillon, all built on the back of....yes you guessed it....oil. Great to have green credentials within your own country when you are polluting the rest of the world

That's the one.

But it's not just Norway that does this.
Sweden, Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands.

It's a little thing - but it helps.

As I said, there are many things we do well in this country, But there are things that other countries do well and we can learn from them rather than having the arrogance to think we have nothing to learn.

Little thing that matters while the big things matter less? Otherwise known as virtue signalling.

it implies being the best at something, which can be quantified quite easily through various units of measurement

How do you measure 'the best army in the world, the best police in the world'?

I have heard those phrases all my life. I don't know how many other countries describe the army and police in similar terms.

Do they describe their police as average?

Little thing that matters while the big things matter less? Otherwise known as virtue signalling

Or helping - because plastic isn't going away.

Do you think the UK has nothing to learn from other countries and the way they do things?

We learn from each other. People do. Countries do.

@sst1234 some athletes might think they have a right to win, if they believe they’re superior to other athletes? Just like a lot of people in Britain somehow think they’re better than anyone else?

That’s what I mean.

Boris keeps saying “world beating” and whatever it is fails a couple of days later but it doesn’t matter because the people who love him don’t care because they want to believe we are the best. And we are far from it.

I think this country is not nearly as ‘world leading’ as it thinks, ie as in, it thinks that it should be leading the world and often behaves as if that is the case in areas where it is not. I’m saying ‘it’, this is a generalisation which you see epitomised in some of current govt rhetoric but also in some of the sentiment on this thread. There is a national pride —arrogance— in the UK that blindly overlooks a history (far and recent) of terrible humanitarian behaviour, or worse, justifies it in the name of claiming world leadership. There’s lots good about this country but a difficulty looking at failings holds us back imo.

@chomalungma

it implies being the best at something, which can be quantified quite easily through various units of measurement

How do you measure 'the best army in the world, the best police in the world'?

I have heard those phrases all my life. I don't know how many other countries describe the army and police in similar terms.

Do they describe their police as average?

Who said best in the world equates to military or law enforcement capability? That’s more 20th century Cold War rhetoric. How about economic indicators, inward flowing investment, R&D, per capita indicators of any kind.