NHS costs attributable to overweight and obesity are projected to reach £9.7 billion by 2050

[hellymissy]

So many posters keep banging on about people not wearing masks, spreading the virus and overwhelming the nhs, people breaking rules etc which is obviously an issue - but we also need to focus on some bigger issues around the long and short term sustainability of the NHS a d consider ways to fix them.

Extracts from government website shows that;

“UK and international evidence suggests that being severely overweight puts people at greater risk of hospitalisation, Intensive Care Unit (ICU) admission and death from COVID-19, with risk growing substantially as body mass index (BMI) increases.

The current evidence does not suggest that having excess weight increases people’s chances of contracting COVID-19. However, the data does show that obese people are significantly more likely to become seriously ill and be admitted to intensive care with COVID-19 compared to those with a healthy BMI.

The UK-wide NHS costs attributable to overweight and obesity are projected to reach £9.7 billion by 2050, with wider costs to society estimated to reach £49.9 billion per year.”

If anything will cripple the NHS it’s the direct and indirect impact of obesity on ICU units, and long term pressure obesity puts on the NHS.

Seriously, What else can we do to tackle obesity?

**this is NOT a fat shaming thread, purely a thread to redirect some peoples attention towards some of the real issues around COVID

@Marmitecrackers

I believe there is convincing evidence that some people are like you and can just moderate intake without thinking but others are different
Indeed one study I saw in tv showed that fatter people use will power all the time as otherwise we fatties would all be 50 stone. Don't assume that what works for you will work for others. Don't assume you have more willpower. It's good this works for you but that does not mean that the problem with others is their inferior willpower or just inferiority in general. Our genetic heritage is to eat while we can. The problem is a mismatch between that and current environment.

It makes me cross that precious NHS resources go on all the obesity related illnesses
Absolutely the money would be better spent on providing decent mental health care, social support, balance risk wrt sedatives vs anti depressants, and prompt diagnoses (no more dismissing physical issues as 'anxiety' or 'hormonal') and preventative care.

Sort out the poverty too.

Sorry @Drowninginwashing You're quite right. The governments of the past 40 years or so, not the NHS, are to blame for the NHS failing to properly support people.

Two or three generations ago, self discipline and stoicism were desired attributes to be admired. Now these traits are ridiculed and thought of as 'uptight' and 'boring'
This is so true.

@Iamthewombat

No, she is saying that there must be a significant number of people who simply eat too much and who can’t excuse it with poverty/mental or physical health problems.

She'd better let the experts know. The doctors and social science researchers. The very strong links between poverty and/or mental health - the socioeconomic causes - are very well known and widely reportedly on.

Separately, why does it bother you so much - what other people do? Especially since it's, as you claim (with no statistical data) a personal choice?

It can't be that you're worried about the cost to the taxpayer. Because it would cost more to pay the extra pension and social care needs of many more people living longer.

So what's your problem with obese people?

It makes me cross that precious NHS resources go on all the obesity related illnesses
Absolutely the money would be better spent on providing decent mental health care..

As a mental healthcare professional, it makes me cross seeing how many people take the piss out of mental health services. I think we're just going to need to accept that there will always be high levels of inappropriate use of the NHS. It makes me sad seeing how said misuse and abuse is to the detriment of people who genuinely need services that then end up getting cut back because of lack of funding and resources.

@dontdisturbmenow

Two or three generations ago, self discipline and stoicism were desired attributes to be admired. Now these traits are ridiculed and thought of as 'uptight' and 'boring' This is so true.

You want to go back two or three generations? Perhaps that 'stoicism' and 'discupline' wrt food was aided by the availability and social acceptability of alternative stress relievers - sedatives and cigarettes.

'Absolutely the money would be better spent on providing decent mental health care, social support, balance risk wrt sedatives vs anti depressants, and prompt diagnoses (no more dismissing physical issues as 'anxiety' or 'hormonal') and preventative care.'

Not sedatives again

Money is already spent on social and mental support. Perhaps GP practices could run an obesity clinic or 'healthy eating' clinic with lots of support and health tips, although of course that may well be seen as 'fat shaming' and if it means eating less it probably won't be popular.

Two or three generations ago everyone smoked like fucking chimneys and drank like fish when they were driving and most people didn’t bother to teach their kids to swim.

But let’s hold them up as the last hurrah in healthy living lol.

Specific crime of fat shamming akin to hate speech so people aren’t embarrassed to go out and exercise fearing abuse

Extract from a post upthread (one of the regular ‘create a Utopia that suits me exactly and then I will lose weight’ ones).

Whilst the concept of ‘fat shamming’ is intriguing - how would you do that, padding? - tell us how you would define fat shaming. What specific actions would constitute a crime, under your law?

Would it include thought crime? How about expressing the view, on an online forum, that not every obese person is in poverty or suffering from medical problems that have rendered them involuntarily obese?

'Separately, why does it bother you so much '
'So what's your problem with obese people?'

Its a discussion forum, things get discussed. I don't go up to people in the street and and confiscate their pasties or anything.

Health is an afterthought in the UK, to this government, paradoxical as that might sound

They keep closing sports facilities (even safe outdoors ones, like outdoor PT or tennis, kids sports)

Sport is essential in keeping a healthy weight

But the focus is 100% on diet

(Thanks to tropes like “you can’t outrun a bad diet” whilst forgetting that doing sport makes you choose better options)

She'd better let the experts know. The doctors and social science researchers. The very strong links between poverty and/or mental health - the socioeconomic causes - are very well known and widely reportedly on.

Once more, not everybody who is obese is in poverty or suffering from mental health problems.

Separately, why does it bother you so much - what other people do?

Not this again. Somebody always wheels this out when they are losing an argument. It doesn’t bother me. Fatuous arguments presented as fact bother me, as does whining that somebody needs to do something.

Especially since it's, as you claim (with no statistical data) a personal choice?

Do I need statistical data to posit that people are choosing what to put into their own mouths?

It can't be that you're worried about the cost to the taxpayer. Because it would cost more to pay the extra pension and social care needs of many more people living longer.

Do you think it is desirable that finite NHS resources are used on preventable conditions? Oh yes, of course. You do, because you think that it’s somehow earned by dying sooner.

So what's your problem with obese people?

See above.

@HelloMissus

Two or three generations ago everyone smoked like fucking chimneys and drank like fish when they were driving and most people didn’t bother to teach their kids to swim.

But let’s hold them up as the last hurrah in healthy living lol.

True, but irrelevant. We don't do that anymore because we know that shit is bad for us... Unhealthy... Dangerous... Causes early death...

Oh wait. Like obesity?

The point I was making was, why is any form of self denial or self discipline ridiculed these days? Why is it all about instantly indulging every whim?

[quote hellymissy]@JacobReesMogadishu I agree with some of your points but I do not agree healthy food is more expensive.

A pack of chicken from Tesco two chicken breasts is £2, vegetables cost £1-2

It's that people ignore the benefit of cooking from scratch/are time poor/can't be bothered amongst other factors to get home and cook a full meal. [/quote]
Worth challenging your own assumptions on this - check out all the responses to the free school meals 'suggestions'.

Don't have time, don't know how to cook, can't afford the electricity, where is the cost of all the utensils and flavouring, oil, stock cube, etc?

I wish there was NHS treatment for feelings of moral superiority.

We need to stop this thing of "big is beautiful", "no wrinkles on a balloon" thinking. No, big is (can be) very unhealthy. It doesn't take much to walk to the shops instead of drive. To walk the kids to school. To eat an apple instead of a cake. To spend 10 mins a day doing a body-resistant work-out. Cut meat out 3 days a week. All these little things add up!

Even the GC has seen the light.

Everyone is an anecdote until they are in some study.
Shame that people like me don't fit into most of them.
I am not below poverty line, I don't drink fizzy drinks (as requested by one of the studies), I don't have MH issues (as wanted by another study), nor do I consider surgery. I wasn't abused, don't have diabetes, nothing like that. I got fat because my portions got bigger and bigger (aw look, made toouch rice. It's a shame to throw it away, but it's not full portion, I will just eat it. What else would i do with it). Many people did because again. 63%overweight or obese.
22% in poverty, 25% have mh issues, estimated 2% have eating disorder. Now these groups are often intertwined plus not all of them will be overweight or obese. Add people with health conditions making it extremely hard to lose weight, (if not impossible) and you still don't get near to 63%
That's why many of us are saying that while there indeed are issues which have an enprmpus effect on a person's weight, these issues are not something everyone in obese or overweight category has.

Yet thread after thread is full of people shouting about poverty. Actually bit insulting because it makes it sound like people in poverty are all obese and can't cook more tahn premade nuggets.

Perhaps you're subconsciously being altruistic SchrodingersImmigrant?

Doing your bit to help cut costs. Wrt to the large pensions and social care bill.

It can't be that you're worried about the cost to the taxpayer. Because it would cost more to pay the extra pension and social care needs of many more people living longer.

Do you think it is desirable that finite NHS resources are used on preventable conditions? Oh yes, of course. You do, because you think that it’s somehow earned by dying sooner

It’s simple economics surely? If someone dies 20 years sooner than they need, they won’t receive pension payments and may well save the NHS in the long term too - the older we are, the more we cost the NHS. It’s nothing to do with “earning”.

@SheepandCow

Perhaps you're subconsciously being altruistic SchrodingersImmigrant?

Doing your bit to help cut costs. Wrt to the large pensions and social care bill.

I'm happy to pay higher tax to fund pensions and social care, but I'm aware that not everybody welcomes more taxes. Some might prefer Schrodingers's approach.

Each to their own. Live and let live.

The parallels to drink dependency are striking (my own specialist subject, sadly)

Over eating and over drinking to the point it impacts on your quality of life is a problem.

People have tough lives, or just boring grinding lives that people drink to escape from. There are bottle shops everywhere, society revolves around drink, wine o clock, a celebration or commuseration must be marked with a drink. Very similar to food.

But anyone who succeeds in giving up knows that no amount of help or support or acknowledgement of trauma can help if you are not motivated to stop lifting the glass.

Itd harder with food certainly, because you have to eat something 3 times a day, but really and truly there is no mystery to eating well - everyone knows it's a low calorie intake comprised mainly of fairly plain veg and lean unprocessed meat. It's boring though, and in a life devoid of fun and fizzle a treat provides a little spark.

But that fundamental motivation must be there or nothing else is worth a damn. And frankly, half the time I can see why the motivation is lacking. Not everyone cares about having a beach body, being fat wont stop you loving and being loved and having fun, and I wouldn't expect the overweight to care more for the NHS or health problems down the line than I'd expect rugby players or fast drivers to. And wine is yummy and so are choc biscuits and they cheer you up when your defences are low. No mystery there either.

Trauma, poor mental health and poverty, they're at the root of many problems. But people can and do find strategies to overcome them when the wine witch/biscuit bitch comes calling.

Lots of lifestyle choices cost the nhs but obesity is always one bought up by certain people
Not all obese people have health issues

You mean the approach of saying "oh shit. It's actually me doing it by being stupid with portions and in denial about need for bigger clothes" and losing weight?
Yeah, perhaps some might prefer it.
What do I know🤷🏻

@timeforanewstart

Lots of lifestyle choices cost the nhs but obesity is always one bought up by certain people Not all obese people have health issues

Smoking is often discussed publicly about the associated cost (though high tobacco taxes help), drug use is too. People want this treated the same? It will be discussed then.

It's not the same as drinking.
Us humans can live without alcohol (although it's very useful for cleaning).
We can't survive without food.