NHS costs attributable to overweight and obesity are projected to reach £9.7 billion by 2050

[hellymissy]

So many posters keep banging on about people not wearing masks, spreading the virus and overwhelming the nhs, people breaking rules etc which is obviously an issue - but we also need to focus on some bigger issues around the long and short term sustainability of the NHS a d consider ways to fix them.

Extracts from government website shows that;

“UK and international evidence suggests that being severely overweight puts people at greater risk of hospitalisation, Intensive Care Unit (ICU) admission and death from COVID-19, with risk growing substantially as body mass index (BMI) increases.

The current evidence does not suggest that having excess weight increases people’s chances of contracting COVID-19. However, the data does show that obese people are significantly more likely to become seriously ill and be admitted to intensive care with COVID-19 compared to those with a healthy BMI.

The UK-wide NHS costs attributable to overweight and obesity are projected to reach £9.7 billion by 2050, with wider costs to society estimated to reach £49.9 billion per year.”

If anything will cripple the NHS it’s the direct and indirect impact of obesity on ICU units, and long term pressure obesity puts on the NHS.

Seriously, What else can we do to tackle obesity?

**this is NOT a fat shaming thread, purely a thread to redirect some peoples attention towards some of the real issues around COVID

@SchrodingersImmigrant

My quote was just about cost. I don't think sausages are that healthy but it is clearly cheaper than a pork chop. I think you're right re: portion size. I have no idea what a portion size is and swing between eating too much and then eating not enough and being rabidly hungry. But back to the point I was making (and which you have enhanced really!), it IS more expensive to eat healthily than at the very bottom end of the food quality and for some people that's a cost too far.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but that isn't concluded from a study of 170,000 people's records over 10 years, it is an anecdotal conclusion and I prefer to stick with the data.

No, you’re confused again, just as you were when you conflated bariatric surgery with methadone programmes and rehab for alcoholics.

All your data tells you is that few of the obese people studied managed to reduce their weight to a healthy range over the study period. That doesn’t necessarily mean that advice on healthy eating and exercise doesn’t work. It means that the people in the study were disinclined to follow it.

It is quite a leap on your part to go from ‘this group of obese people weren’t very good at reducing their weight’ to ‘bariatric surgery is the best answer to obesity’.

I don’t need to study 170,000 people to know that choosing to mutilate your own body because you won’t follow advice on a healthy lifestyle - of which there is loads available, see @BoomyBooms post upthread - is not rational.

As @vivariumvivariumsvivaria correctly points out, it does nothing to address the underlying cause.

Where do we find out what a portion is, though?

I am genuinely confused about portions.

But back to the point I was making (and which you have enhanced really!), it IS more expensive to eat healthily than at the very bottom end of the food quality and for some people that's a cost too far.

Two thirds of the country are overweight or obese. They're not all struggling to find the 30p difference between 4 crap sausages and 1 pork chop. And when they're 90% likely to spend at least that 30p difference after dinner on some kind of snack/dessert/'treat', it's absolutely not cheaper to buy the sausages vs the chop.

So often on here you see people say there is "nothing wrong" with feeding children fish fingers, nuggets and chips, Coco pops etc.
I've never read a post where a mother acknowledges that feeding these things 'every day' is good nutrition.

I did feed my - very slim- kids these food once or twice a week though, along with vegetables, fruits, and only 4 nuggets when under 6, never more than 6 afterwards.

Correct portions don't require a degree in nutrition. If weight is not lost despite a balanced diet, then portions need to be reduced. Google will show the correct size of plate to use and how to devide it. Takes 10s
Seconds. If a mum can find MN and register, she can find this information.

So its all sorted now yes?

Excellent.

So to cure obesity, people eat less and exercise more. Why hasn't anyone said..

I found the obesogenics study very interesting. Not fatty hating at all.

And err, not all fat people have fat kids.

My quote was just about cost.
It wasn't really because you mentioned BDA and 1 cheap porkchop not being enough surely. That made it more of i dietary issue.

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria you can either find it on a pack or on health websites.
For example my spaghetti say on a pack 100g per person. I have to say that checking these was eye opening and quite explained my weight....

Chronic stress (be it trauma or a life of grind and poverty) causes inflammation.

Ongoing stress means people - human beings - reach for comfort. In the past that was cigarettes and sedatives. Now it's food.

The solution is to give people better lives, and invest in good mental health care.

But that would cost money. As would lots of people living longer (from being healthy). So nothing constructive is done and instead just blaming, attacking, and judging people. How dare they save on pensions and social care! Terrible!

This is America but I think it's relevant here too. From the article:

The No. 1 Reason Americans Are Getting Fatter: We're Not Smoking
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/245347/

The solution is to give people better lives, and invest in good mental health care.

I’ve read many posts claiming that the solution is for the government to make sure that everyone is happy, all the time. Including free CBT for everyone.

But that would cost money. As would lots of people living longer (from being healthy). So nothing constructive is done and instead just blaming, attacking, and judging people. How dare they save on pensions and social care! Terrible!

You’re really keen on this ‘cost of living longer’ thing, aren’t you? What’s your proposal? Encourage everyone to eat as badly as possible because they are likely to kill themselves with metabolic diseases?

Nobody said people had to be happy all of the time. That's just your bitterness twisting the truth.

Bitterness, eh?

Free online CBT-type course - phw.nhs.wales/services-and-teams/activate-your-life/

Thanks to @Danniiaddy for your post about the dietician thinking you are lying. That's where I am atm too - I eat one regular size meal a day as I'm just not hungry, but as I'm physically disabled my weight keeps going up. No idea why, but the common theme to speaking to anyone about it, is that I'm lying about how much I eat.

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

I don't understand how bariatric surgery addresses the emotional component of obesity - can anyone signpost me to information?

My own observation is that most healthy eating and dietary advice relates to appetite and mindful eating. My obesity is unrelated to appetite - I don't eat because I am hungry, I eat because I am sad and have many stresses which cannot be resolved with mindfulness and gratitude journals.

So, the idea that surgery can address that has me all of a wobble quiver

The reason that it addresses people who comfort eat is because the gold standard of NHS Bariatric surgery is the Gastric Bypass or in my case a Gastric sleeve. You simply cannot eat enough to make you fat. Your stomach is reduced to a 100/150ml capacity . Nearly 4 years after surgery I can't finish a child's portion of a Sunday lunch for example. Maybe half if I was starving. Then as you lose weight you become more active because it no longer takes the huge amount of energy to move (in my case) 20stone around. It was like carrying a whole other person with me every where I went!.. when you feel better about yourself then your mood lifts and the desire to comfort eat goes.. however should you be a sweet/junk food/high calorie fatty food addict you will be recommended for the bypass... eat sugar after that and you will only do it once ! The effect is like having a diabetic hypo combined with horrific diarrhoea.. aversion therapy ! On top of that the NHS programme includes dieticians and psychological assessments to explore the reasons for the food comfort eating. My cohort of surgery candidates weighed between 19 and 35 stone. Aged between 24 and 58. All have lost between 50 and 80% of their excess weight. (14 of us) We meet every month to catch up (virtually these days) but it's great to see my friends not just substantially thinner but so much healthier and happier.

@Sparklfairy

But back to the point I was making (and which you have enhanced really!), it IS more expensive to eat healthily than at the very bottom end of the food quality and for some people that's a cost too far.

Two thirds of the country are overweight or obese. They're not all struggling to find the 30p difference between 4 crap sausages and 1 pork chop. And when they're 90% likely to spend at least that 30p difference after dinner on some kind of snack/dessert/'treat', it's absolutely not cheaper to buy the sausages vs the chop.

Yes but I said some people which of course is true.

I am not saying all people can't afford to eat healthily. I am suggesting we look at ALL the variables.

My quote was just about cost.
It wasn't really because you mentioned BDA and 1 cheap porkchop not being enough surely. That made it more of i dietary issue.

No, its because you work out the cost based on the portions. A pack of 8 porkchops is £4 at Asda. That's either £1 a portion or 50 depending on what a portion is.

All your data tells you is that few of the obese people studied managed to reduce their weight to a healthy range over the study period. That doesn’t necessarily mean that advice on healthy eating and exercise doesn’t work. It means that the people in the study were disinclined to follow it.

But if people can't follow it, it doesn't work? We don't think that good mental health advice is to 'look on the bright side' or 'stop worrying' or 'remember that voice is just in your head' so why would we simplify weight advice? Interesting use of word disinclined as it seems to be concluding that you can just blame the participants for being maybe lazy or stupid and carry on with a program that's having little impact.

@Iamthewombat

Wrt living longer. I already said what I'd do (see my earlier posts). I'd choose higher taxes.

I know not everybody would want that. Hence my question. What would you do? I have a curious mind and I'm interested in people's preference for how to fund the additional pensions and social care costs.

Happy all the time is a completely different thing from having a tolerable life.

Stable affordable housing - with cooking and storage facilities.

Enough money (be it from wages or benefits) to pay for the basics - food, gas, electric, etc. And having a little extra to afford the odd treat too.

Good mental health care and social support.

Basically a life that's not necessarily 'happy all the time' but at the same time is not a relentless grind of gruel, poverty and/or despair.

Oh and btw. A previous poster suggested that type 2 diabetes could be reversed.

That's not always the case. Perhaps because obesity is just one of several causes including genetics. It's not always caused by obesity.

@Lightsontbut Yes but I said some people which of course is true.

I am not saying all people can't afford to eat healthily. I am suggesting we look at ALL the variables.

What you actually did was zero in on the tiny proportion of the two thirds of the population who are both overweight/obese and genuinely in poverty. But if you focused on everyone else who can afford that extra 30p per meal to 'upgrade' from four crap sausages to just one 'small' chop then the cost to the NHS would be reduced. Looking at all the variables as you say, a big part of it is buying lazy quick food, the false economy of buying e.g. cheap sausages but also having to buy crisps/chocolate/other snacks for afterwards, and absolutely no idea about portion size or how much they're actually consuming.

Something we agree on, @SheepandCow. I’d raise taxes too, on sugary food as well as income taxes, but I wouldn’t create a multi-billion obesity couselling industry with it.

'A previous poster suggested that type 2 diabetes could be reversed. That's not always the case'

Not always no, however it is a fact in many cases it can be reversed or 'put into remission' ias diabetes org puts it.

'Chronic stress (be it trauma or a life of grind and poverty) causes inflammation. Ongoing stress means people - human beings - reach for comfort. In the past that was cigarettes and sedatives. Now it's food.'

Sheep. I havent read all your posts but your constant excuses and reasons for over eating are ridiculous. Not everyone is 'stressed' or traumatised, it is trawled out repeatedly on obesity discussions. Like a binge drinker needs to admit yes they drink too much for whatever reasons, to numb the boredom etc so too do overeaters need to admit to themselves no they don't have a metabolic disorder they eat too much because they like it. Only then will the penny drop that they/you are in control here.

@hamstersarse

A gastric bypass or sleeve .. pays for itself within 2 years. It is STILL the ONLY long term, sustainable effective weight loss method available.

I also find this statement chilling.

The long term impact of having some of your intestines being unable to absorb sufficient nutrients is now starting to be clear. Short term success, long term failure is how I view these operations.

Then you have not looked at all the research and long term studies. and your attitude is one of the reasons people feel embarrassed to approach their GPS about Surgery .

If I had a heart problem I wouldn't think twice about having heart surgery if it were going to save my life and make me healthier. !

I had an eating problem.. under active thyroid, anti depressants that actually cause weight gain (despite the fact I was depressed about my weight) and that never ending spiral of being so heavy it hurt to move.. so I didn't and just got fatter)

I was in a cohort of 14 patients. Aged 23-58 weighing 19-36 stone. 4 years later we have all lost between 53 & 82% of excess weight.

I have to take a multi vit (which we pay for ourselves) every day for the rest of my life. I have yearly bloods and a B12 injection 3 monthly. I find that distinctly LESS 'chilling' than the metaformin I had to take when fat and type 2 diabetic, the bP pills for hypertension, the pain killers for backache and arthritic knees...

Take a look at Professor Rachael Batterham of UCL departmental Obesity. She has a LOT of information on YouTube. An 83% success rate after 5 years is an amazing outcome for morbid obesity.

No it isn't for everyone. Below BMI 35 diet is still possible . However the chances of success at BMI 40 are so staggeringly small that surgery is without doubt the sensible decision for improved long term health.

Just want to add that I am not including gastric bands in this. They can be circumvented by liquidising sugary products.. the NHS very rarely do them these days for this reason. I am referring to a bypass or sleeve.

@GetOffYourHighHorse
It's not 'excuses'. It's pointing out the many issues involved - and that it's not as simple as making morally superior intolerant judgments.

FWIW I'm not talking about myself. I very much enjoy food, including junk food at times, but I'm not overweight. I'm just aware of the issues and I also don't believe in making moral judgements about people doing no harm to me.

To an extent, I think it's better to go through life with an eat, drink, and be merry attitude, rather than a life of misery, denial, and judgment.

'It's not 'excuses'. It's pointing out the many issues involved - and that it's not as simple as making morally superior intolerant judgments.'

Honestly I'm not morally superior at all. I just get tired of hearing these 'reasons'. Some honesty would be refreshing occasionally. Yes a small proportion have severe psychological issues and eating disorders but please don't tell me everyone overeating is in this category.

'The reason that it addresses people who comfort eat is because the gold standard of NHS Bariatric surgery is the Gastric Bypass or in my case a Gastric sleeve. You simply cannot eat enough to make you fat'

I'm not advocating gastric bypass ops, imo the nhs should prioritise people with illnesses, but I find it interesting that the 'metabolic disorders' or obesity due to meds with 'side effects' all seem to vanish once people literally can't eat as much as they used to.

And @GetOffYourHighHorse
Posters on here - more than one - have said (several times) how upsetting they find the intolerant judgments. They've explained the reasons behind their obesity - reasons including physical health conditions, medication, trauma, emotional distress and pain, and also the vicious circle of feeling so depressed about being overweight that they need to comfort eat.

To dismiss and disregard these people, to continue writing patronising and judgmental posts about 'education' or punishment (via taxes or denying medical treatment, or any of the other stick ideas on this thread) is really not at all nice. Quite nasty in fact.