NHS costs attributable to overweight and obesity are projected to reach £9.7 billion by 2050

[hellymissy]

So many posters keep banging on about people not wearing masks, spreading the virus and overwhelming the nhs, people breaking rules etc which is obviously an issue - but we also need to focus on some bigger issues around the long and short term sustainability of the NHS a d consider ways to fix them.

Extracts from government website shows that;

“UK and international evidence suggests that being severely overweight puts people at greater risk of hospitalisation, Intensive Care Unit (ICU) admission and death from COVID-19, with risk growing substantially as body mass index (BMI) increases.

The current evidence does not suggest that having excess weight increases people’s chances of contracting COVID-19. However, the data does show that obese people are significantly more likely to become seriously ill and be admitted to intensive care with COVID-19 compared to those with a healthy BMI.

The UK-wide NHS costs attributable to overweight and obesity are projected to reach £9.7 billion by 2050, with wider costs to society estimated to reach £49.9 billion per year.”

If anything will cripple the NHS it’s the direct and indirect impact of obesity on ICU units, and long term pressure obesity puts on the NHS.

Seriously, What else can we do to tackle obesity?

**this is NOT a fat shaming thread, purely a thread to redirect some peoples attention towards some of the real issues around COVID

possibly a part of the issue is a point blank refusal from a significant section of the population to believe that anything other than fat people being lazy/useless is part of the cause? As a result all we do is keep telling fat people “just eat less and move more it’s easy” and ignore all the reasons people aren’t managing to do that

Not accepting that the solution lies with us as individual is not saying that people useless or lazy. Noone is saying it's easy, no one is saying that it's case of 'just' doing something.

These threads are always an eye opener though to the number of people who just won't accept responsibility for their actions. If you are tempted by unhealthy food so you pick it over healthy ones, it's still your own doing and the issue is with building up resilience to be able to say no to the good things in front of you.

No it is not easy, and no one says it is. I find resisting temptation very hard but it doesn't takeaway the fact that the solution is there, and the onus is on us to make a change, not shops, not the government, us as individuals.

[quote hellymissy]@JacobReesMogadishu I agree with some of your points but I do not agree healthy food is more expensive.

A pack of chicken from Tesco two chicken breasts is £2, vegetables cost £1-2

It's that people ignore the benefit of cooking from scratch/are time poor/can't be bothered amongst other factors to get home and cook a full meal. [/quote]
Two chicken breasts costs £2 and will do two portions, maybe three.
40 chicken nuggets costs £2 and will serve at least 5 portions.

Vegetables may be £1 - £2. A tin of beans is 27p.

Of course it is possible to eat healthily and cheaply, but cooking from scratch doesn't necessarily work out cheaper, especially when you factor in buying staples like herbs and spices.

Can you stop saying that the government does nothing to tackle obesity. It's a huge work programme at local and national level. I'm not going to spoon-feed you because if you are that interested you will do the work yourself but

1. Google obesogenic environment to understand the number and variety of factors that contribute to obesity
2. go on your local authorities website and have a look for their obesity plan or their health and wellbeing report, current and historical. They will describe any work being done on obesity along with outcomes and future goals.
3. have a look at some of the UK gov 'health matters' obesity publications and work programs
4. have a browse through your regional nhs providers sustainability and transformation plan and see what they are doing to address obesity
5. see what initiatives your kids school has signed up to to try to help
6. recognise that all of this activity is having to happen at a local authority level on a tiny and sometimes zero budget because of all of the cuts to public health that we have been subject to for years

Better diagnosis and treatment of mental
health conditions, of adhd, of other endocrinological problems and thyroid issues. All contribute to obesity.

Haven't even RTFT because the first reply is utter bollocks.

Unhealthy food is cheaper than healthy food.

This isn't true. I don't buy junk food, not out of snobbery but because I end up eating more as I feel hungry a couple of hours later. It's a false economy, and even then, oven chips and chicken nuggets are no cheaper than what I would have normally, say a pork chop (50p) 500g frozen veg (45p) and some cheese on top (pence). If I swapped out some of the veg for a potato again, it's pence.

People need to stop saying junk is cheap. I'm always shocked at how expensive most of it is and I always want to snack afterwards.

@Iamthewombat I think thats an unfair oversimplification but we obviously aren't going to agree. I'm on my phone and cant access full journals so have done a quick google.

You may find the below interesting:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4539812/

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but that isn't concluded from a study of 170,000 people's records over 10 years, it is an anecdotal conclusion and I prefer to stick with the data.

To me, insanity is that other than switching from reducing fat to reducing sugar the move more, eat less, maybe join a group, advice has been consistent for decades while there has been an exponential rise in obesity.

Of course there are wider societal factors at play but ultimately move more, eat less does not address the emotional element of food which supported surgery can. If people with serous obesity can lose and sustain without surgery, this is ideal and fantastic because they really are the 1% and deserve nothing but praise. Otherwise what are we doing with the other 99% just telling them to keep trying knowing in all likelihood they will fail and ultimately die from this. That is insanity.

A lot of it is mindset and lack of motivation

And even more of it is poverty and inability to afford a healthy diet of variety and fresh unprocessed food - with limited or no access to cooking and storage facilities.

But giving people more money alone wouldnt solve this problem. If you gave everyone an extra £50 a week how many of them would go and spend it on vegetables? Or how many would continue to buy the same unhealthy food but more of it, more treats or spend the money on something completely different.
If you dont have the ability or inclination to cook healthy meals then having more money doesnt solve that.

@JacobReesMogadishu

Seriously, What else can we do to tackle obesity?

Look at food poverty in this country? Unhealthy food is cheaper than healthy food.

Community cooking classes?

Cheap council run gyms. Free walking groups, prescribe park runs (some GPs locally do this). More and better dietician advice/healthy eating advice, meal plans, etc.

Food poverty - it's not just about people buying cheaper but unhealthy food. When children & adults live with food poverty (or starve, as we used to say), it can lead to eating disorders & obesity when they are later able to get food. Starvation can upset the body's response to food, along with the emotional damage done which affects how the person views safety, food, hunger & body image.

So a first step to lessen NHS & personal costs in the future is to ensure nobody lives in food poverty now.

@Sparklfairy

Haven't even RTFT because the first reply is utter bollocks.

Unhealthy food is cheaper than healthy food.

This isn't true. I don't buy junk food, not out of snobbery but because I end up eating more as I feel hungry a couple of hours later. It's a false economy, and even then, oven chips and chicken nuggets are no cheaper than what I would have normally, say a pork chop (50p) 500g frozen veg (45p) and some cheese on top (pence). If I swapped out some of the veg for a potato again, it's pence.

People need to stop saying junk is cheap. I'm always shocked at how expensive most of it is and I always want to snack afterwards.

And would you just have a grilled pork chop, boiled vegetables and cheese as a meal? Or would you be making that into some sort of dish. If you dont have the cookery skills to make a dish, as well as the seasonings and equipment, there is a very limited range of what you can make.

Essentially these threads boild to 2 conclusions.
1 poor people can't cook so buy crap
2 surgery is the only way for majority (it does make you wonder what fo people do instead of eating btw because if you close one door people will find another outlest for the emotions unless that is dealt with. That's quite concerning actually)

And even more of it is poverty and inability to afford a healthy diet of variety and fresh unprocessed food - with limited or no access to cooking and storage facilities
Small portions of unhealthy food doesn't make you obese. The issue is much more quantity and quantity does come with a cost.

I don't understand how bariatric surgery addresses the emotional component of obesity - can anyone signpost me to information?

My own observation is that most healthy eating and dietary advice relates to appetite and mindful eating. My obesity is unrelated to appetite - I don't eat because I am hungry, I eat because I am sad and have many stresses which cannot be resolved with mindfulness and gratitude journals.

So, the idea that surgery can address that has me all of a wobble quiver

@Mistymonday

Better diagnosis and treatment of mental health conditions, of adhd, of other endocrinological problems and thyroid issues. All contribute to obesity.

I’ve worked with more than one thyroid patient who say they feel the dr keeps them slightly under active. It’s no good for their weight but more importantly you feel rubbish when your underactive.

It took us 13 years to get dh diagnosed with it despite all the symptoms & a six inch goitre

And would you just have a grilled pork chop, boiled vegetables and cheese as a meal? Or would you be making that into some sort of dish. If you dont have the cookery skills to make a dish, as well as the seasonings and equipment, there is a very limited range of what you can make.

... That is a 'dish' Have you never heard of meat and two veg? I low carb (mostly), so yes, a chop with a lot of veg (steamed) with grated cheese melted onto the veg is great. Healthy and filling due to the fats in the pork and cheese and the quantity of veg. Or halve the veg and have a jacket potato with it. It's a perfectly acceptable meal, not sure why you'd think it isn't.

Although I don't agree with the approach put forward around surgery, i can understand it

I have a friend who has been morbidly obese for all the time I have known her (20 years). She goes through cycles of SW and loses a bit but nothing has 'worked' for her.

She is now 50 and I do think that surgery is an option for her (she is on a list) because it has now been left too late. She T2 diabetic and has multiple health conditions.

But that individual case demonstrates how the advice, food environment and general practice of nutrition has let her down so badly that she now needs to have such a drastic intervention. According to the studies you are quoting she would be classified as a success. I just can't see it that way. She is a victim of the lack of holistic care around health.

It's dangerous territory discussing cooking here. Once when talking about similar topic and people suggested pulses as great and sound part of the meals the discussion eneded by
"but they take long to cook, some don't have money for it"
"Soak them overnight, they cook fast after"
"Who can be arsed to soak them overnight".

The dish no dish ridiculousness reminds me of that.

Yes the apathy is strong in some people isn’t it? Add pulses to water & bicarb, leave overnight.

I think a single pork chop at 50p does not make the recommended portion according to British Dietetic Society. You'd need 2. That's £1. Or you can buy a bag of 20 sausages for £1 and get 6.66 meals, so 15p each. No need for the cheese. Serve it with the same veg.

So lets say the cheeses is 15p a person. Your meal is £1 more or 50p more if you really think one small chop is enough (might be with lots of cheese I guess?).

So for a family of 4 that's either £2 or £4 more. So either £14 or £28 more a week or £729 or £1459 more a year. A lot of money by anyone's standards I think.

Beans may be actually cheaper I think. Or cheaper than meat I think but they are not easy to cook if you don't know what you're doing or don't many facilities.

I think we need to look at the whole complex picture rather than simplify some aspects of the challenge.

It's alcohol as well. Calories from wine. Nibbles with wine. Beer, beer, beer. Munching on sweet things the next day for a pick me up. You can't talk about overweight and obesity without including alcohol.

People don't like to be told that they are overweight. If you try to tell them that - they immediately find excuses. Yes, people can be ill hence overweight. Yes, people can be poor hence overweight. But the MAIN reason why people are overweight - its because they eat too much. Portion control is non existent. You can eat pizza, you can eat cake, you can eat junk food and still keep fit - it's about the amount of pizza you eat! You don't have to consume 15" on your own, buy a smaller one and share in with your other half, add a side salad as well. Its a known fact that you should finish your meal and remain slightly hungry, but who actually follows that? Same as everyone knows you should drink 8 glasses of water a day, but again - almost no one does.
Everything is great in moderation. If people were following that rule - the obesity problem would have dissapeared.

I think a single pork chop at 50p does not make the recommended portion according to British Dietetic Society. You'd need 2. That's £1. Or you can buy a bag of 20 sausages for £1 and get 6.66 meals, so 15p each. No need for the cheese. Serve it with the same veg.

From the NHS website:

if you currently eat more than 90g (cooked weight) of red and processed meat a day, the Department of Health advises that you cut down to 70g, which is the average daily consumption in the UK.

One chop (loin chop, without the bone) is 100g. One is plenty. It has 28g of protein, plus protein in the cheese, and I don't get hungry until breakfast... more than easy to eat the difference in price in snacks afterwards if you go for the cheap sausages (which you'll need four of to match the protein of one chop). As I said, false economy.

I remember as a kid, pizza night was a section 1/6th of what is now a s/m size. Never questioned it. Now having a pizza is having a whole one and it's not questioned because it's standard.

@Lightsontbut

I think a single pork chop at 50p does not make the recommended portion according to British Dietetic Society. You'd need 2. That's £1. Or you can buy a bag of 20 sausages for £1 and get 6.66 meals, so 15p each. No need for the cheese. Serve it with the same veg.

So lets say the cheeses is 15p a person. Your meal is £1 more or 50p more if you really think one small chop is enough (might be with lots of cheese I guess?).

So for a family of 4 that's either £2 or £4 more. So either £14 or £28 more a week or £729 or £1459 more a year. A lot of money by anyone's standards I think.

Beans may be actually cheaper I think. Or cheaper than meat I think but they are not easy to cook if you don't know what you're doing or don't many facilities.

I think we need to look at the whole complex picture rather than simplify some aspects of the challenge.

Yes. There is a but for everything, but since you mentioned British dietetic association. Firstly, recommended portion for cooked meat is 60-90g. That's a chop. Secondly, do you reckon that they would think that one smaller pork chop is better or worse than "Water, Pork (32%), Fortified Wheat Flour [Wheat Flour, Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin (B3), Thiamin (B1)], Pork Fat, Pork Rind, Dextrose, Salt, Spices, Emulsifier (Diphosphates), Yeast Extract, Preservative (Sodium Sulphite), Antioxidant (Ascorbic Acid), Pepper Extract, Sage Extract, Sausage Casing [Beef Protein]"

Plus you are going over recommended portion there. The pack of 20 sausages is supposed to make 10 meals as recommended portion is 2 sausages. Which btw is one of the issues causing obesity. People don't know what the portion is.

It's all about education around nutrition. So often on here you see people say there is "nothing wrong" with feeding children fish fingers, nuggets and chips, Coco pops etc. That shows a significant lack of understanding of how we develop taste and understand of food and also sets children up to become adults that eat beige processed crap.

Also we need to educate on what a normal size person looks like. All the time you see people describe normal sized children as skinny and use words like "stocky" when actually the child is chubby. Again this sets them up to become bug adults.

I went to some sort of cheap restaurant a while ago (not my choice) and there were things like a cheeseburger pizza on the menu. If people thing that is food it's no wonder we have an obesity problem.

Going out for a treat should be some nice fish, a pasta dish not a cheeseburger sandwiched inside a pizza.

There is a whole cereal aisle in supermarkets. People believe that is a breakfast food!!!

It all shows in the UK we have a very poor concept of what food is.

England’s poorest areas are fast food hotspots

New figures from PHE show higher concentrations of fast food outlets in England’s most deprived communities.

www.gov.uk/government/news/englands-poorest-areas-are-fast-food-hotspots

Cheap takeaways are an absolute scourge on deprived/ low income areas. Positioned close to secondary schools, which is a huge problem in itself, you’ll easily find 10-20 fried chicken /pizza /burger places in a small span of streets. This is very much a poverty problem.