To ask for advice for my dd on how to turn a boy down?

[Katesometimeslate]

Hi,
Dd16 is in a bit of a tricky situation with a very nice boy in her year. They are friendly and have met up a few times to walk dogs together in the local woods. She has been told that he apparently has a bit of a crush on her and he has been asking her to go on these dog walks quite a few times this half term. Now she does like him as a casual friend but doesn’t fancy meeting up with him pretty much everyday and also doesn’t want to lead him on if he indeed does like her but as he’s not exactly asking her out on a date or anything she’s finding it very hard to turn him down. She has tried taking a long time to reply and has thrown excuses in about why she can’t go but he just tries again the next day. How can she turn him down in this awkward situation where he hasn’t explicitly said he’s interested in her romantically?

As far as I can read, your DD says not today and the boy then leaves her alone for the day and asks then the next day?

The boy has never made any romantic advances at all and all the talk for BF/GF is rumours?

Your DD likes him as a friend and doesn’t want more but wants to keep him as a friend maybe walking the dog a couple of times a week?

The poor boy doesn’t seem evil to me, according to MN I think no male can ever ask out a female or they are an entitled abuser. He is 16.

My suggestion if your DD wants to or needs to nip it in the bud would be honesty, firstly if I was your DD I would talk to him when out on a walk, just say how annoying it is that people think they are a couple when they are not and will never be. Make sure he understands he is in the ‘friend zone’ and if she values him as a friend to tell him that too. Next I would say that I like to walk the dog alone sometimes and arrange to meet 1 or 2 times a week. Again only if she wants to.

The other thing she can do, if the boys friendship and company isn’t important to her, which again is valid at 16 is to just say it’s been nice walking with him but that she wants to walk the dogs alone as it’s good for clearing her head and getting some time alone. Again I would say this only if true.

I suppose then if the boy keeps trying he doesn’t understand and should be told in no uncertain terms she isn’t interested and won’t be walking with him anymore.

I don’t think it will come to that though either he really is just a friend or he has a silent crush and will get over it.

Boys are not all evil.

I don’t think she should feel she has to do the emotional labour on this. If he wants to ask her out he can, but in the meantime she should just be firm about what she wants every time. If she is up for the walk then she should go, if not she should keep it simple and say ‘I’ve got stuff on today, have fun!’. If she doesn’t want to go at all any more, she can either say no every time until he gets the message, or tell him she doesn’t fancy meeting up for walks going forward.

I think it’s putting a lot of unfair pressure on her to work out what he’s feeling and draw him into the open about it. Women are often left in the position of having to work around the unexpressed feelings of men, and it’s a shame if she feels she has to start that now just because he lacks the guts or motivation to be upfront about his feelings.

@SpeccyLime

I don’t think she should feel she has to do the emotional labour on this. If he wants to ask her out he can, but in the meantime she should just be firm about what she wants every time. If she is up for the walk then she should go, if not she should keep it simple and say ‘I’ve got stuff on today, have fun!’. If she doesn’t want to go at all any more, she can either say no every time until he gets the message, or tell him she doesn’t fancy meeting up for walks going forward.

I think it’s putting a lot of unfair pressure on her to work out what he’s feeling and draw him into the open about it. Women are often left in the position of having to work around the unexpressed feelings of men, and it’s a shame if she feels she has to start that now just because he lacks the guts or motivation to be upfront about his feelings.

He’s not a man and she is not a woman. It is not unusual for a boy or girl at that age to be unable to articulate how they feel for fear of rejection he might worry if he did say something he would lose her as a friend and so is keeping quiet to avoid rejection or the death of their friendship.

It’s also really normal for her to be worried about it too.

These are children, trying to work their way round the nuances of feeling and expressions and relationships both romantic and otherwise. It’s not easy, it’s not her job to teach him but it’s both their responsibility to be kind unless there is an actual need to be otherwise. Kids of both sexes at the moment have fairly fragile mental health lockdown has affected teens badly. They lost 5 months of social interaction and that is a lot of learning. Girls don’t have to be ‘nice’ to boys if they are being pests she doesn’t have to go on walks with him if she doesn’t want to. She doesn’t have to let him down gently but she doesn’t have to think he is a stalker and/or be harsh or mean or ridicule him.

OP your daughter sounds like a lovely girl who had a nice casual friend. Keep saying not today when it isn’t convenient. She is probably doing the right thing now.

@geekone where did I say she shouldn’t be kind?

The point is that if we’re saying it’s normal for this boy to not know how to express himself and to struggle with emotional articulation, we should be applying the same rules to OP’s daughter and not expecting her to find a way to resolve an awkward situation that isn’t of her making.

Lots of the advice on this thread is about advising her to manipulate a situation where she can announce that she doesn’t want a relationship with him. She shouldn’t have to do that. If he won’t be clear about his intentions, there should be no pressure on her to work them out and then respond to them to save him from doing the work.

That’s why my advice is that she should just respond on her own terms. Walk with him if she wants to, politely decline if she doesn’t. Let go of the idea that she has to clarify his feelings for him. She’s not a woman yet but she will be one day, and she shouldn’t be learning at this young age that it’s her job to do emotional labour for men in a relationship.

What about “ a little birds told me you had a bit of a crush on me. I don’t know if it’s true or not but I’m not ready for anything romantic at the moment with anyone. “ obviously means she can’t get with anyone else for a little while but perhaps provokes a response on where she heard it, is it real etc.

She doesn’t feel like she wants to be very upfront with him because she says it’ll be too awkward if he never did actually have feelings for her. She’s going to go with dropping in that it’s weird that people are saying they’re anything more than friends on their next walk

Well it seems like that too would be awkward and he might think she has feeling then but cool.

I hate that girls learn from a young age that some
Men can’t take no for an answer and that they are made to feel guilty for not liking them. She doesn’t need a response, just not today- hope you have a good day! Short but polite responses will send the message.

He's not a nice boy because she is making it pretty clear that she doesn't want to go on dog walks with him but he's treating it like a sport, like he can wear her down.

This is how men become abusers - because they learn they women can be persuaded, that it's okay to dismiss a not today thanks, that silence equals consent.

He knows she's not interested. But like graphista's example, he believes he should just keep trying.

I hope her making it crystal clear that she is not interested does the trick. And that he doesn't a) accuse her of leading him on or b) call her a frigid bitch, both of which have happened to me when I've asserted my boundaries with 'nice' blokes

@Clymene

He's not a nice boy because she is making it pretty clear that she doesn't want to go on dog walks with him but he's treating it like a sport, like he can wear her down.

This is how men become abusers - because they learn they women can be persuaded, that it's okay to dismiss a not today thanks, that silence equals consent.

He knows she's not interested. But like graphista's example, he believes he should just keep trying.

I hope her making it crystal clear that she is not interested does the trick. And that he doesn't a) accuse her of leading him on or b) call her a frigid bitch, both of which have happened to me when I've asserted my boundaries with 'nice' blokes

Where in any of the OPs posts does she say that? When the boy asks if she is going a dog walk that day and she says no, he doesn’t ask again until I assume he is going out with his dog the next day! You are projecting @Clymene

@SpeccyLime I do agree and I also meant both of them when I said they are not able to articulate. She certainly should not be doing his emotional labor but I doubt that is what he is looking for or needing. I think that is what people on here are pointing her towards. It seems to be he is an evil abuser stay away or manipulate the situation or do his emotional labor.

Chances are he likes her as a friend might like her a little more but won’t do anything about it. In this case the OPs daughter just needs to say no when she doesn’t want to go a dog walk, nothing more sinister or mean or pushy.

In short speccy I think we agree

"She has tried taking a long time to reply and has thrown excuses in about why she can’t go but he just tries again the next day."

She doesn't want to go but he is persisting in asking her. Unless he had autism or some other social communication difficulty, it should be abundantly clear that she's not interested in walking her dog with him every day.

I'm not projecting. I'm reading what the OP has written.

Does she actually like him as a friend or does she feel bad for him? Theres a massive difference in how shes going to handle the situation. He knows shes not interested otherwise he would have made a move.

I think she just needs to be direct. I like you as a casual friend but I dont want to go on dog walks everyday. Im sorry.

As a teen i had a very similar situation with what I thought was a nice guy. I knew he liked me but didnt feel I could reject him until he said. He actually told me he liked me after a while, I made it very clear I wasnt interested but felt sorry for him so continued a friendship.

He just became more and more persistent in his advances, as if he thought the longer he kept on at me the more likely I would be to give in. It was horrible, even when I had been ignoring him for about 6 months he still would try, even when I got another boyfriend he kept on. He only stopped when I got my boyfriend to threaten him. Makes me so angry because he had nothing going for him either.

The moral of the story is shes going to have to learn to not feel sorry for boys. Only continue to meet with him if its what she genuinly wants, and be clear from the outset that she only wants friendship.

Why not just let her trust her own judgement. He hasn't done anything wrong.He's lonely in lockdown - all teens are - and enjoys walking the dog with her more than with his parents. She has no idea whether or not he is attracted to her. He may be sounding a bit desperate because he is lonely.

Trust her to navigate the friendship and if he does make a pass at her, she can just say, 'I like you as a friend but not as a boyfriend.' We've all had to learn how to do that. But no need to play games like saying she's not free or to dominate and belittle him as one PP suggested, 'I told you we are meeting on Tuesday are you deaf' .

So far they are friends who walk dogs in lockdown. The rest is hearsay. Leave them to sort it out themselves.

Gosh, long thread so fast.
I probably can't add anything useful.
DD is masterful at turning boys down. I am in awe of her for it.
The method depends on the lad. But always very direct.
She's kind to shy boys & scathing with pushy ones. Lovely but firm No to boys she likes as friends.

The mates who follow her around like puppy dogs but never declare, she finally resorts to asking "Do you like me?" She'll keep demanding until they finally confess & then she puts them straight about where her own feelings are. The lads respect her all the more for it. Nothing is more maddening than hoping when there is no chance. Things are only awkward for a few days & then they find a new balance of how to be buddies.

@Clymene

"She has tried taking a long time to reply and has thrown excuses in about why she can’t go but he just tries again the next day."

She doesn't want to go but he is persisting in asking her. Unless he had autism or some other social communication difficulty, it should be abundantly clear that she's not interested in walking her dog with him every day.

I'm not projecting. I'm reading what the OP has written.

If she says not today and he tries again tomorrow that’s not persistent, particularly if she does say yes sometimes. If she said sorry I would rather walk alone everyday or if she said no thanks I prefer to walk on my own most of the time I will call you if I fancy company to see if you are free and he still calls that is persistent. If she says not today and he tries tomorrow that’s ok too.

@Clymene I'm sorry if you have had a poor experience somewhere down the line, but you are definitely projecting.
OP said :
Dd16 is in a bit of a tricky situation with a very nice boy in her year. They are friendly and have met up a few times to walk dogs together in the local woods. She has been told that he apparently has a bit of a crush on her and he has been asking her to go on these dog walks quite a few times this half term. Now she does like him as a casual friend but doesn’t fancy meeting up with him pretty much everyday and also doesn’t want to lead him on if he indeed does like her but as he’s not exactly asking her out on a date or anything she’s finding it very hard to turn him down. She has tried taking a long time to reply and has thrown excuses in about why she can’t go but he just tries again the next day. How can she turn him down in this awkward situation where he hasn’t explicitly said he’s interested in her romantically?

Note - she has made excuses why she can't go. She hasn't said "no, I don't want to walk the dog with you'. How is the boy to know these are 'excuses' and not reasons whey she couldn't go on those days? As a pp said, she texts her sister every day to see if she wants to walk the dog with her - sometimes she does and sometimes she doesn't - it has nothing to do with whether her sister likes her or not.

If OP's dd feels there are mixed messages then she can choose any of the excellent suggestions already posted, to make it clear, and then choose if she still wants to walk with him occasionally or not. None of this makes this poor lad a monster.

All I can say is that you must have very poorly developed social skills. If I keep suggesting meeting up with someone, they take ages to get back to me and then repeatedly make excuses about why they can't get together, I think I'd get the message pretty bloody quick that they didn't want to see me.

Nope, I can truthfully say I have excellent social skills. I also mix with busy people.
However, what I have or don't, isn't relevant here. We all know that people will hear what they want to, to a certain degree. If this friend wants to spend time with OP's dd, and they have had a nice time when they have walked the dog together, then it is fairly natural to believe that any reasons for not wanting to meet up are actual reasons. If it is a bit one sided, and the friend is keen to and OP's dd isn't keen to, then it is down to OP's dd to be clearer - which is what so many posters have been saying. This is nothing to do with you imagining this boy is some sort of monster. My response would be the same on all the other threads where posters are asking for advice about their dds' friendships with other girls or their ds's friendships with other boys. It makes sense to be clear.