Is Sir Michael Parkinson within his rights?

[flaviaritt]

Says men are funnier than women. He says, ‘It's a very contentious statement, but they're much better'.

My view is that, by the age of 85, if you think men are funnier than women, it’s just your opinion based on your experience and nobody should be getting riled up about it.

Reasonable?

He's entitled to his opinion. Others are free to disagree. Meh.

Could you just answer my previous question rather than saying the same things over and over? How are you going to show that his opinion is formed by unconscious bias against women? You’re not, are you? You are just going to assert it, ad nauseum.

I have answered this question. EVERYONE is influenced by unconscious bias. His background, age, gender and his OWN WORDS give us lots of information to draw from. I've already said I'm just making an education assertion but that is based on significant research on unconscious bias so it's not being pulled from thin air.

You're so certain he hasn't got unconscious biases towards women, how can you be so sure?

There are far more now then when Parkinson was in his heyday.

Yes, there are. And they either make him laugh or they don’t.

I have answered this question. EVERYONE is influenced by unconscious bias. His background, age, gender and his OWN WORDS give us lots of information to draw from.

This is just a fancy way of saying you are going to assume he’s a sexist. I’m bored of this now, so let’s leave it there.

www.classicfm.com/composers/mozart/nannerl-mozarts-sister-better-musician/

Sadly we haven't got to hear all the amazing work that women have/could have produced over the centuries.

It would be unnecessarily gracious, given the level of condescension that went into the offer. But no, it is not helpful for me to see the ‘research’ unless that research actually demonstrates what is being claimed. I don’t need to reach about the theory of unconscious bias. I know what it is. What I want is not what is being offered - a reason to believe SMP’s opinion is rooted in bias (as in, baseless and invalid), rather than his simply his experiences.

My research would actually add a lot of weight to this argument.
However, I've not said his opinion is baseless or invalid. What I'm saying is his opinion is strongly influenced by his unconscious biases - just like yours are, and mine and everyone else in the world!

At the time he was on the tele I suspect that he interviewed many more men than women, that women comedians were v thin on the ground (can only think of V Wood off the top of my head) and lastly, but most importantly, popular women celebs were attractive, intelligent and demure -and if you strayed far from that you would not be on bbc tv.
I was just reading Selina Scott's article about working with Frank Bough, who died recently, and he was rude, superior and sabotaged the work of his female cohosts on the bbc - that's the era MP comes from .

This is just a fancy way of saying you are going to assume he’s a sexist. I’m bored of this now, so let’s leave it there.

No it isn't. That's what you want me to say. I've not said that all all.

@flaviaritt

It's like saying men are better composers than women, just because historically we have so many successful male composers. For example, where are the female Mozarts, Beethovens, Bachs, etc.,

It’s not. We have lots of female comedians.

In the eight and a half decades MP has been alive, how many male comedians do you think he’s seen? I bet he’s seen more female comedians in the last five years than he has in the previous eight decades. It’s ridiculous to pretend he’s seen anywhere near as many women in comedy than men.

@flaviaritt

I have answered this question. EVERYONE is influenced by unconscious bias. His background, age, gender and his OWN WORDS give us lots of information to draw from.

This is just a fancy way of saying you are going to assume he’s a sexist. I’m bored of this now, so let’s leave it there.

You can always tell when someone regrets a goady post and it’s normally when they’ve been backed into a corner with someone else’s logic.

My research would actually add a lot of weight to this argument.

Something needs to. Because at the moment it’s pretty ephemeral.

Yes, of course we are all influenced by our experiences. That’s what he is saying. In his experience, men are funnier than women. He’s perfectly conscious of the fact that he thinks this. By calling his experiences and thoughts ‘unconscious biases’ you are trying to make out they are illegitimate. They are not. I like the colour yellow. I am sure there are lots of subtle reasons for it based in my experiences. That’s obvious. We all use our senses and then we form opinions. Mine is that yellow is nice. What that is not (however many times you shout “everyone has unconscious bias”) is a prejudice against the colour green. I just prefer yellow.

The patronising assumption that I haven’t read anything on unconscious bias is not helping you to persuade me of anything.

I've made no such assumption. At a push, you could claim that by encouraging you to broaden your horizons I have made the assumption that you haven't read everything on unconscious bias. Apologies if this is not the case.

But I can see you're not enjoying the discussion any more, and I don't take pleasure in upsetting people, so we'll leave it there as you say

You can always tell when someone regrets a goady post and it’s normally when they’ve been backed into a corner with someone else’s logic.

It wasn’t logic.

He did once state he’d been jealous when his wife, a fellow journalist, started getting famous and he just wanted her to stay at home really - she did step back from her career. Thing was, there were very few female comedians in his heyday - Victoria wood a d Jo Brand, maybe. There are lots and lots now and some of them are really strong but I doubt he’s watching them.

It can be claimed to be sexist, because Michael Parkinson has made a generalisation about the skills of all women compared with men based on nothing but his own limited life experiences.

He doesn’t need anything other than his life experiences. There is no such thing as objectively ‘funny’. There is no evidence to prove him ‘wrong’. Subjectivity is all there is here.

I come across funny women in my life. Dry sense of humour.

But, I have been to many comedy evenings and every time a woman has been on stage she has been rubbish. Definitely not as funny as the men. I think the same when I watch Live at the Apollo on TV.

In the eight and a half decades MP has been alive, how many male comedians do you think he’s seen? I bet he’s seen more female comedians in the last five years than he has in the previous eight decades. It’s ridiculous to pretend he’s seen anywhere near as many women in comedy than men.

And I didn’t. What I am saying is that he has probably seen enough to know whether he finds them funny. If he had seen just a couple, I would agree with you. But I find that unlikely.

No it isn't. That's what you want me to say. I've not said that all all.

You have. You don’t see the irony either, of calling this opinion of his sexist and then revealing that you assume that to be the case because of his age and background. This is pure assumption, you have offered no evidence of anything.

Yes, of course we are all influenced by our experiences. That’s what he is saying. In his experience, men are funnier than women. He’s perfectly conscious of the fact that he thinks this.

This is unconscious bias. Just because he says it out loud doesn't change that fact. I

By calling his experiences and thoughts ‘unconscious biases’ you are trying to make out they are illegitimate.
Again, I've not said that. Actually everything I've says could be interpreted as legitimising his comments. Unconscious bias helps explain why people view the world in a particular way. It's a very valuable concept as it allows us to add context to comments we may find outrageous and allows us to challenge them.

They are not. I like the colour yellow. I am sure there are lots of subtle reasons for it based in my experiences. That’s obvious. We all use our senses and then we form opinions. Mine is that yellow is nice. What that is not (however many times you shout “everyone has unconscious bias”) is a prejudice against the colour green. I just prefer yellow.

Well unless the colour green has behaved in a particular way towards you or you were told not to choose green by family, society etc. Then this doesn't add anything to the discussion.
However, we do see unconscious bias ( as a result of societal expectations) influencing colour preferences in girls and boys.

And I didn’t. What I am saying is that he has probably seen enough to know whether he finds them funny. If he had seen just a couple, I would agree with you. But I find that unlikely.

But that’s going on the basis that he’s seen exactly the same amount of male and female comedians. He can’t possibly have seen the same breadth of female comedy as male, because it doesn’t exist.

Unless you think all female comedy is exactly the same?

I haven't RTFT. I think women tend not to make it big in the comedy profession, for whatever multitude of reasons. But in real life, I find women are much funnier than men.

I do see that the older someone is the more likely they are to be overtly sexist
I do see that men tend to be more sexist that women
So much so that I would not call out the attitude in an old white male, but if my daughter said something so stupid, I would mention it,

This is unconscious bias. Just because he says it out loud doesn't change that fact.

This is just nonsense. I can’t continue to discuss it with you because it’s like arguing with a ball of wool.

But that’s going on the basis that he’s seen exactly the same amount of male and female comedians. He can’t possibly have seen the same breadth of female comedy as male, because it doesn’t exist.

Where did I say that? I didn’t. What I am saying is very simple: in his experience, based on the female comedy he has seen, he doesn’t laugh as much at female humour as he does at male humour. He thinks men tend to be funnier. I can’t see what there is to argue about here; it’s just his opinion.