Is Sir Michael Parkinson within his rights?

[flaviaritt]

Says men are funnier than women. He says, ‘It's a very contentious statement, but they're much better'.

My view is that, by the age of 85, if you think men are funnier than women, it’s just your opinion based on your experience and nobody should be getting riled up about it.

Reasonable?

Happy to share some research privately - I'm not doing it publicly is it would be very outing.

And what would the research tell me? That unconscious bias exists (which I believe already), or that you can prove that SMP’s very conscious preference for male humour (his opinion) is actually unconscious bias against women? How would you demonstrate that?

I think this is all a storm in a teacup.
MP I think men are funnier than women
Some of the population: I agree
Some of the population: I disagree.

So what? He is hardly going to influence anyone to think men must be funnier because he says so.

Michael who?

As well as the women's experience thing, they're also not bloody listening, they missed the joke - if we're throwing sexist generalisations around

There are funny men and funny women....I don’t really know who’s the funniest, he’s entitled to give his opinion. He thinks men are funnier, so what? It’s what he thinks.....🤷🏼‍♀️

@RomeoLikedCapuletGirls

I think it’s not that men are funnier than women because I know a lot of funny women. It’s just that men, having had more time and developed more confidence on the public stage, have set the template for funny.

Also women modify their speech and subject matter when in the presence of mixed company whereas men, male interests and humour being seen as the default, don’t have to.

This is true, and I’d also add that MP will, because of his age, have seen a huge amount of male comedians through the years - it’s only recently we’ve seen more of a balance in the number of female comedians. So arguably he hasn’t had the same experience of female comedians because he probably seen twenty men for every one woman.

@flaviaritt

Happy to share some research privately - I'm not doing it publicly is it would be very outing.

And what would the research tell me? That unconscious bias exists (which I believe already), or that you can prove that SMP’s very conscious preference for male humour (his opinion) is actually unconscious bias against women? How would you demonstrate that?

Well it might give you a much better understanding of how unconscious bias works as you don't seem fully get it.... Just because he says the words out loud doesn't mean they weren't influenced by decades and decades of cultural references and societal expectations.

I don't think there's any innate difference. I just think women have less things to laugh about than men.

SueEllenMishke

I will take that as you aren’t going to demonstrate it. Just more waffle, then.

"So, as an example, if a person said “Women are less intelligent than men” and when confronted by evidence that this wasn’t the case they refused to change their mind, I would argue that was sexist. But if someone said the same thing and then produced evidence that it was true, I wouldn’t."

But your standard for "evidence" includes anecdotal experience. That is not good enough when you are issuing a general statement, otherwise any bigot could hide their bigotry behind a claim of "life experience".

The distinction is in the use of generalisations.

I have no problem with somebody saying that they prefer Sean Lock to Jo Brand. I have no problem with somebody saying that of their favourite comedians, a greater number are male than female.

I do have a problem with somebody saying men are funnier than women... because it is sexist.

He hasn't the awareness to realise that he can't be objective because he's a man.

When men say this it makes it clear they don't GET women as people.

He really shouldn't be advertising his lack of objectivity and sexism.

Can't understand why everybody thinks so highly of him.

But your standard for "evidence" includes anecdotal experience. That is not good enough when you are issuing a general statement, otherwise any bigot could hide their bigotry behind a claim of "life experience".

Yes, they could. But it would either be bigotry, or not, based on that balance of experience and external evidence. And in this case (what is funny) there can be no claim that it is “bigotry” because no external evidence can be brought to bear. There is literally no right or wrong about it, only his subjective opinion.

I do have a problem with somebody saying men are funnier than women... because it is sexist.

I don’t think it is.

Ugh!

I have no problem with somebody saying that they prefer Sean Lock to Jo Brand. I have no problem with somebody saying that of their favourite comedians, a greater number are male than female.

I do have a problem with somebody saying men are funnier than women... because it is sexist.

This is really well put.

In my everyday life, I find as many women funny as I do men. However, thinking about famous stand ups, I generally prefer male ones. I have never thought about that before and am wondering why. Maybe there are just more of them.

@flaviaritt

SueEllenMishke

I will take that as you aren’t going to demonstrate it. Just more waffle, then.

How is that waffle? I can share research with you but I'm not doing it publicly as it has my name and university on it.

What evidence do you want me to give you? If you spend some time reading about unconscious bias you will see it supports everything I'm saying.
Of course what he says was influenced by unconscious bias.... literally every thing we do and say is!!

If, like you believe, he has said those comments fully aware of his biases then that actually makes it worse!

@flaviaritt

I do have a problem with somebody saying men are funnier than women... because it is sexist.

I don’t think it is.

It's like saying men are better composers than women, just because historically we have so many successful male composers. For example, where are the female Mozarts, Beethovens, Bachs, etc.,

Where men are more successful, it purely down to sexism.

SueEllenMishke

Could you just answer my previous question rather than saying the same things over and over? How are you going to show that his opinion is formed by unconscious bias against women? You’re not, are you? You are just going to assert it, ad nauseum.

And what would the research tell me? That unconscious bias exists (which I believe already), or that you can prove that SMP’s very conscious preference for male humour (his opinion) is actually unconscious bias against women? How would you demonstrate that?

Since you actively called posters out on providing no research on unconscious bias, it would be gracious to at least thank somebody offering to provide it.

Also, you're asking what the research would tell you? Maybe read it and find out. That is what wider reading is for... expanding your horizons. You're under no obligation to agree with it or change your opinion.

It's like saying men are better composers than women, just because historically we have so many successful male composers. For example, where are the female Mozarts, Beethovens, Bachs, etc.,

It’s not. We have lots of female comedians.

I have no problem with somebody saying that they prefer Sean Lock to Jo Brand. I have no problem with somebody saying that of their favourite comedians, a greater number are male than female.

I do have a problem with somebody saying men are funnier than women... because it is sexist.

This is the crux of it really ...

Since you actively called posters out on providing no research on unconscious bias, it would be gracious to at least thank somebody offering to provide it.

It would be unnecessarily gracious, given the level of condescension that went into the offer. But no, it is not helpful for me to see the ‘research’ unless that research actually demonstrates what is being claimed. I don’t need to reach about the theory of unconscious bias. I know what it is. What I want is not what is being offered - a reason to believe SMP’s opinion is rooted in bias (as in, baseless and invalid), rather than his simply his experiences.

That is what wider reading is for... expanding your horizons. You're under no obligation to agree with it or change your opinion.

The patronising assumption that I haven’t read anything on unconscious bias is not helping you to persuade me of anything.

@flaviaritt

It's like saying men are better composers than women, just because historically we have so many successful male composers. For example, where are the female Mozarts, Beethovens, Bachs, etc.,

It’s not. We have lots of female comedians.

There are far more now then when Parkinson was in his heyday. Name some comedians from when he was doing his show.