To think that furlough at 80% is FAR too generous.....

[loveyouradvice]

I'm just interested about what others think... I think fine to do this for first three months but really do feel it should be down to 60% or 70% maximum by now....

People on 80% of salary, with no travel or expenses related to working away from home, are really not doing badly .... especially since so much less to spend your money on

It is everyone else I think is having a tough time - whether its kids not getting Free School Meals in holidays, or freelancers or those who've lost their jobs....

I would prefer the "pain" to be shared.... so if on furlough, yes lots of free time and yes, having to tighten your belt a bit....

Would it not be better to pay LESS in furlough - I'm thinking around 65% - and MORE to those who don't qualify but are having a very tough time financially..... ?

Furlough is now damaging the UK economy as its saving people from making hard decisions in business.

I think at this point most businesses have made people redundant regardless of furlough tbh.

The government has ordered certain businesses to close, so they must offer support for those businesses and workers. Once shops and pubs reopen they will need their staff, so it's not a case of delaying redundancies in this case - it's a case of supporting those businesses while they've been forced to close.

If you think the burden should be shared and that 65% is sufficient to live on, feel free to donate 35% of your income each month to help those who are not so fortunate. Problem solved.

@loveyouradvice

I do hope that, this is all over - the concern for those struggling (through no fault of their own) will continue.

Thanks Sheepandcow for being one of the few who got what I was saying.... If this happens (which I fear it won't), we will have made real progress.

I feel a great sadness living in a country which is NOT paying for free school meals through the holidays - it feels essential, especially in a time of pandemic when life is so VERY hard for so many

And I feel an enormous sadness that this structure is creating more HAVES and HAVE NOTS.

I am amazed at the anger on here. On one level, we are lucky to be living in a country where furlough is being paid at this level...but why the anger? Why not the recognition that those receiving it are a darn sight luckier than those who have similarly LOST THEIR JOBS THROUGH NOT FAULT OF THEIR OWN and EQUALLY WANT TO WORK BUT CAN'T in the past... ie those who are disabled or become ill, or whose employer goes bankrupt.... AND the recognition that they are darn lucky to be getting it when many who "don't qualify" often for some quirk of fate, or because they've been freelance are NOT getting it. To me it is a very imperfect system and this is not being fully acknowledged

Yes I absolutely think that those on minimum wage should be treated differently to the couples who are getting £4,800 a month and not working....

If you'd been remotely clear in your OP about what you meant, rather than just sounding like you wanted people on furlough to have less because, then you might have had more people understand you...

People can only reply to the post you make, not the one you meant to make.

What an odd update op. If I wanted to start a thread about the unfairness of the welfare system, I'd probably mention that in my title or op. Rather than harping on about the furlough scheme being too generous and then several hundred posts in mentioning that I meant compared to those unemployed pre covid.

I think at this point most businesses have made people redundant regardless of furlough tbh.
Nope
millions of people are still on furlough rather than unemployment benefit

Do one

We have people on furlough (construction) and fully hope that there will be an upturn in work meaning that they will be able to come back from furlough. We now employ about 85 having made just over 25 redundant.

It's not true at all it's just low wages. I've had furlough for 15 weeks in an industry completely screwed by the virus. My employer tops it up to 100%. I consider that very generous.

That said I'd rather just bloody well do my job.

I actually mostly agree with you @loveyouradvice

When lockdown was announced while we were in the pub last week, most people were cheering saying they could do with another rest from work but what can they do if the pubs are closed... then they were saying they'll stock up on the beer for home and go and get new home improvement projects started etc.

Then there's a handful who are still working all hours and managing to afford to go to the pub every other week.

@ListeningQuietly why do you want people to be on unemployment benefit?

I'm guessing OP didn't like the negative reaction to the Tory brain fart in her first post.

How do we pay all these loans back ??????

I suspect it will be living with austerity x10 for the next 20 years.

Some people need the money, some don't, some are fraudulently claiming - no one knows what should happen because we can't foretell the future.

My mother was devastated to be furloughed this week. The reduction in pay means she will struggle to pay her bills. As it stands I support her with food. Very judgmental.

Yeah, why on earth should we make sure that people have enough to pay their bills and get food in? Sponging bastards eh?

Everyday
I do not want people to be on unemployment benefit
but if the Government is going to pay out for people to be at home
they should not be tied to an employer who may never hire them back.
They should be free to look at other options.
ALSO
Proper unemployment benefit would cover all those unable to get furlough eg the millions of self employed who have earned nothing since March.

As long as I don't have to pay for it it's fine but I know I will be paying for it and my children and probably their children.....

May be those of us who have not been paid by the state as private sector and had no furlough and no self employed help or universal credit could be awarded a tax break - eg only have to pay half their normal tax for the next 3 years? That might make things a bit fairer.

Furlough should have been managed through the student loan system. You have to repay as a cut of your taxes but it’s written off eventually. Or maybe just add a 2% income tax surcharge to people who took government money for ten years.

I completely understand what you’re saying OP, but furlough payments are a red herring, especially if you want to talk about the haves and have nots. The distinction isn’t between furloughed workers and those that have slipped through the Covid help net, it’s between the top elite earners and the rest of the country (world?) Jeff Bezos anyone? Amazon? B&Q and whoever they’re owned by?

Also, back in August (I think) I remember reading these threads with all the handwringing about how are we going to pay it back. I get it, it’s shit, but (and bear with me, I’m trying to remember the figures as I wrote them then) the U.K. government borrowing until that point was £210billion for this years covid response. Furlough payments were £35 billion. Yes it’s big money, but not actually the huge amount of the total that it’s often being said it is.

Thirdly - the economy has gone or is going to go to shit. The government needs people to spend their money in the economy. If there was no furlough, then all those people join the others that have slipped through the net and lose their jobs, their houses, can’t feed their kids, which is all awful... BUT they also don’t go out for coffee, buy birthday and Christmas presents, but craft stuff for their kids during lockdown etc etc. By providing furlough payments, the government enable tax and NI payments are still coming in and money is still being spend in the economy.

Finally, most people on furlough aren’t completely furloughed and not working at all, ever. I’m in Wales and I work in tourism. Wales has been in lockdown since Friday 23rd October and is coming out tomorrow, Monday 9th. Despite us having to cancel all holidays coming to our properties for those 17 days, I still had four hours of work the first week and nine this week. My boss pays those hours and then the government tops it up. I was furloughed completely with no work from March 23rd to mid June, then I returned to work until Friday 23rd October. During August I was able to work around 99% of my typical hours, while June, July, September and October I worked approximately 60% of my typical hours.

I have a job, I work hard, but for a few months this year, through no fault of our own, our entire industry was told to close down. When it reopened it was booming.

I just read that people on furlough who get help with childcare costs from Universal credit can still have their childcare costs paid whilst on furlough. I understand why people would need to keep their children in childcare if they are just furloughed short term but for those industries who pretty much know they are likely to be furloughed until April / may time, can we really justify this ?? I was on a forum where furloughed mums were jubilant that they can keep sending their kids to childcare and have it paid for for months when they are not even at work ? Anyone know if this is really correct ?

@BubblyBarbara

Furlough should have been managed through the student loan system. You have to repay as a cut of your taxes but it’s written off eventually. Or maybe just add a 2% income tax surcharge to people who took government money for ten years.

But the employee does not get the Furlough money, the employer does.

The employee is paid by their employer
who receives a grant from the Government for it.

aloha
Many people's jobs would indeed bounce right back

but others (eg staff of a Greggs in Canary Wharf) never will.

Its madness to keep baling those businesses out.

The big concern is how will this money be recouped .. probably on tax rises 🤯

My husband and I are both higher rate taxpayers and in the private sector and I am happy for "my taxes" to go on the furlough scheme. I dont feel it is unfair at all.

And I'd also be happy to pay more tax.

@ListeningQuietly

aloha Many people's jobs would indeed bounce right back

but others (eg staff of a Greggs in Canary Wharf) never will.

Its madness to keep baling those businesses out.

Absolutely, I’m not saying all jobs will bounce back, or even all industries. For example, my partner runs his own business in outdoor education and has done for 15 years. He initially received the self employed help, but decided that this has probably been an irreversible death knell for his industry and has now started another business as a carpenter and is fully booked 5/6 days a week until after Christmas now. The help he received enabled him to sit back and look at his skill set.

Without furlough payments, everyone in all affected industries could have been made redundant at the same time and all been vying for jobs that just aren’t there at the moment.

I really hate the narrative that this government are pushing. We live in a community and that should mean that we happily help those who need it. Imagine resenting people that need heart bypasses or cancer treatment or brain surgery because it’s taxes that pays for NHS treatments that you personally haven’t needed?