To think that furlough at 80% is FAR too generous.....

[loveyouradvice]

I'm just interested about what others think... I think fine to do this for first three months but really do feel it should be down to 60% or 70% maximum by now....

People on 80% of salary, with no travel or expenses related to working away from home, are really not doing badly .... especially since so much less to spend your money on

It is everyone else I think is having a tough time - whether its kids not getting Free School Meals in holidays, or freelancers or those who've lost their jobs....

I would prefer the "pain" to be shared.... so if on furlough, yes lots of free time and yes, having to tighten your belt a bit....

Would it not be better to pay LESS in furlough - I'm thinking around 65% - and MORE to those who don't qualify but are having a very tough time financially..... ?

I see why Rishi did it TrainspottingWelsh.
I don't have to agree with it and I won't stop campaigning for all to have enough to live on.

If The Others - those condemned as being ok to struggle without enough - really are as you say a small group, then it won't be too costly to increase their benefits to a living amount.

If in fact it's a large group, then that's a lot of potential spenders for the economy.

If we want to avoid unrest due to large numbers needing benefits at the same time, we need to start making the benefits system fit for purpose as a safety net.

Furlough won't last forever. We're still going to see quite a lot of redundancies sadly. Add in the Long Covid sickness claims, and that's a lot of people needing benefits. Let's ensure that benefits are enough for all to live on.

And it absolutely does play into the narrative of "deserving" vs "deserving".

The need to increase benefits to a liveable amount is less about "quality of life" and more about survival - being able to afford as you say the essentials. Which many can't do on the pitiful £70ish a week.

Of course furlough wasn't about quality of life. But it was saying that some people are more deserving of financial support than others.

What a shame that so many are happy to accept that. It doesn't bode well for anyone currently furloughed or suffering from Long Covid. The benefits safety net won't be reinstated unless there's the public will for it.

I think for minimum wage single workers, it's not really fair. For people complaining about it only being up to 30k then frankly I don't have much sympathy.
I have been working throughout, but I worked out even if I was made redundant and DH got his 80% furlough, we would still be able to pay our bills though there wouldn't be much left over. I have a low paid admin job but due to the sector I am in, there's no chance of me going anywhere.
I do feel for people having to pay childcare etc and I do/did support free school meals but if you're on more than 30k a year complaining about not enough furlough you more than likely made the choice to have higher outgoings than prioritising savings

@Bouncycastle12

Ummmm, *@Madmummyto1*, I know several people on furlough who are quite happy being paid a reasonable amount to do absolutely sweet FA. And frankly I think taxpayers - who are picking up the bill for all this - have every right to query whether or not it was sensible to not require some form of volunteering or training over this period. I’m self-employed, but don’t qualify for the support (like a lot of people) and I’ve had to do all sorts of things apart from my usual role in the past few months. It’s absolutely not unreasonable to suggest that this might have been a more sensible use of furloughed people’s time.

How arrogant of you. People who are furloughed had no choice in the matter. How dare you think you should dictate how they spend their time. It also sort of defeats the purpose of furlough if everyone is congregating somewhere for volunteer work. Do you know what I would have liked? To keep working. And when my work place reopened I went back full time to help them out where some staff were still shielding. Should I have retrained to do a completely different job in the time I was furloughed would that please you? Would that be constructive enough for you? Also people who are furloughed are tax payers too. I pay tax. What do you assume that anyone who was furloughed has never payed tax? Training? Do you think everyone who was furloughed is some kind of uneducated layabout? I think you are very arrogant and self important to even entertain this idea. Sorry you aren’t getting help but that is not the fault of people who are furloughed.

I don't recall anyone disagreeing with you about benefits being too low. But the fact remains that a rapid growth in claimants doesn't achieve anything.

You only have to look at the comments on this and previous threads to see the resentment about 'my hard earned taxes paying for people to sit at home on their arses' 'make them earn it with voluntary shit and retraining' 'We can't afford it' 'make them pay it back in future' 'give them less'. You really think there would be overwhelming support if we called the average furlough pay job seekers allowance instead and gave it to every currently unemployed person?

And your own opinions seem at odds with what you propose. On the one hand you don't think disability benefits are enough (something I agree with you on btw), but on the other you think 60% of nmw, a smaller income than living on disability benefits, would be a fairer solution? And you really think those same people on 60% of nmw would be actively campaigning to increase disability benefits when they are expected to live on less? Because I don't.

I don't agree on a universal income or that we necessarily need to increase the overall welfare budget. I think we need affordable housing and to change the way it's spent so there aren't so many discrepancies, and for those capable of working, change the current system so it isn't covering the shortfall of shitty employers paying shitty wages.

People on the old benefit system didn’t get the £20 a week increase
Only those on UC got that Increase
Why is that ...
My neighbour is disabled
She gets ESA / PIP
( I know this because I have helped her with the forms )
But because she hasn’t been transferred over to UC she isn’t getting the extra £20 a week and there must be thousands not getting the extra money that UC claimants are getting

I completely agree with you about housing. Personally, I want to see mass council housing.

I did a Boris and waffled a lot on this thread and perhaps I've not explained my opinion clearly.

I don't agree that 60% of NMW is enough (although it's not less than the £74 a week lower rate ESA - and JSA).

But - if we had to choose between:

a) some people get 80% of wages - but others get the pitiful £74 a week, or nothing if they've fallen through the gap (which has happened to some posters on this thread).

Or

b) Everyone gets something, but at a lower rate of 80%

Of those two options I'd have chosen b). The government opted for a).

But - I don't want either of the above.
I want either:

c) Furlough AND increased benefit rate for non furloughed claimants

Or (my preference):

d) Universal Basic Income

I'm not in charge though (to the relief of many here, I know ).

@Madmummyto1 You honestly can’t see that it might have benefited the nation to have people doing constructive things for a year rather than - in many cases - nothing? And where did I say anything about paying tax? (Although we will all have to pay a lot more in taxes to pay for the furlough.) Plus I know various people who’ve taken on secondary jobs on the side - so they’re much better off from furlough. And various other examples on this thread - women going back to work from mat leave to go furlough. We are all entitled to criticise such an unfair system which will cost us all a fortune over the years. Anyway, not interested in being shouted at by some stranger on the internet. Bye.

@im5050

People on the old benefit system didn’t get the £20 a week increase Only those on UC got that Increase Why is that ... My neighbour is disabled She gets ESA / PIP ( I know this because I have helped her with the forms ) But because she hasn’t been transferred over to UC she isn’t getting the extra £20 a week and there must be thousands not getting the extra money that UC claimants are getting

Very good question.

Shocking treatment of vulnerable people - many of whom are already so badly struggling.

@im5050

People on the old benefit system didn’t get the £20 a week increase Only those on UC got that Increase Why is that ... My neighbour is disabled She gets ESA / PIP ( I know this because I have helped her with the forms ) But because she hasn’t been transferred over to UC she isn’t getting the extra £20 a week and there must be thousands not getting the extra money that UC claimants are getting

Not everyone on UC got it either.

Not sure if anyone else mentioned this but where did the year come from that has been mentioned a few times? I was furloughed for three months then went back to work in July and since then it has been flexible furlough, and will continue to be so. I don’t think many have had a year off.

SheepandCow
Exactly
This is rarely mentioned and it’s often disabled people that are on the old style legacy benefits
I think I read that they will be the last to be moved over to UC particularly if they get the SDP with their claim .
Where is the uproar that people who are disabled who are most likely already spending more money to do stuff that most of us take for granted are not getting the extra £20 a week that everyone on UC is getting at the moment

TheFormerPorpentinaScamander
I wasn’t aware of that
What type of UC claiments didn’t get the £20 extra a week

Couldn’t the constructive thing being, you know, their job? Yes I want to criticise the system too but not by suggesting how others spend their time. Sorry for shouting but I think you are really patronising. You initial reply to me seemed to imply that those furloughed are layabouts doing nothing while the tax payers pick up the bill - as if people furloughed were not tax payers!!! You seem cheesed off that you don’t get help like I said that’s a shame, at least strangers on the internet don’t feel they have the right to tell you what to do with your time. I think you are quite prejudiced about this and I doubt you could see it from someone else’s point of view. Bye

You're right TheFormerPorpentinaScamander
I believe the extra £20 is only if you're claiming because of Covid (redundancy or illness).

The "deserving" vs the "undeserving" narrative again.

@im5050 anyone affected by the benefit cap won't have received the extra despite already living on less than the government actually say they need.

I don't know if the pre/post covid thing made a difference. I just know I'm sick of people telling me I got extra money for nothing when I didn't (not people on here. People in real life)

@im5050

I wish I knew (where the outrage was).

It's a major part of what I've been trying to highlight here.

Too few seem to care about disabled and ill people. Shamefully.

I don't necessarily mean posters here. I know that quite a few of you do want better support for the disabled.

I think a lot of people seem only to care now it’s very possible that they might be affected by the amount of money UC is
It’s not all large screen TVs 5star holidays and a goat
Although a goat might be useful for meat and milk😂

oh fuck off, if i was furloughed and was on 80% of y salary id be in even more debt that i am, yes im saving money with no commute but thats it and it doesnt cover the extra gas/electricity from me being in all day (working from home) and the fact im eating and drinking more (but eating slightly better)

Id bloody love a goat! They are so super cute and would eat the weeds for me and save me a job

@im5050

I think a lot of people seem only to care now it’s very possible that they might be affected by the amount of money UC is It’s not all large screen TVs 5star holidays and a goat Although a goat might be useful for meat and milk😂

And cheese.

I hope more people will start to care.

Instead of thinking that they're different.

Anyone would think that disabled people didn't have to buy food, and pay gas and electricity (because, being disabled, they're often in the house all day).

This pandemic has absolutely exposed the disappeared safety net. I hope the silver lining of all this is public demand for a fit for purpose benefits system.

sheep agree on the council housing. I think if anyone in power gave a fuck those that did fall through the canyons cracks could have also been topped up to 80%. I can understand it initially, but they've had months to sort the shortcomings.

I could be wrong on the £20 because my info is anecdotal, but I know of two separate people, one on tax credits, one on uc that got the extra automatically. Don't want to give specific details about their situations and how I know so it will be hard for anyone who knows about these things to guess exactly why they got it when apparently others don't, but both work ft and neither have multiple dc, disabilities, etc that could put them anywhere near the cap.

@TrainspottingWelsh the cap doesn't apply to working claimants.