To think that furlough at 80% is FAR too generous.....

[loveyouradvice]

I'm just interested about what others think... I think fine to do this for first three months but really do feel it should be down to 60% or 70% maximum by now....

People on 80% of salary, with no travel or expenses related to working away from home, are really not doing badly .... especially since so much less to spend your money on

It is everyone else I think is having a tough time - whether its kids not getting Free School Meals in holidays, or freelancers or those who've lost their jobs....

I would prefer the "pain" to be shared.... so if on furlough, yes lots of free time and yes, having to tighten your belt a bit....

Would it not be better to pay LESS in furlough - I'm thinking around 65% - and MORE to those who don't qualify but are having a very tough time financially..... ?

The money to fund this should be taken directly from the over 60s in the form of a new Covid tax, progressive in its nature like income taxhello

Well, DH and our friends, all professionals, in their early 60s would retire, faced with paying more tax - and they are all net contributors. I suspect many clients would too. DH is self employed, and is paying all the overheads on an office the government won’t let him use. He is paying business rates; and would only qualify for an exemption if they emptied the office. Difficult to empty it in a lockdown.

Given that there is likely to be a collapse in the commercial property market in city centres, as well as the loss of income tax and NI from micro businesses like his and the clients, there is likely to be a collapse in business rates, affecting inner city LAs’ ability to deliver services in the short term.

I can see OP's point that hardship should be shared equally, but I'm with SheepandCow on this one.

Seems like there are a hell of a lot of people who don't give a shit when it's some other poor bastard supposed to make ends meet on £350 a month, but when it's personal, suddenly it's absolutely appalling that the government are expecting people to live on so little.

All those people on UC because they couldn't find work before covid, they're just as incapable of going to work now as the people who've been furloughed. Why are those who were lucky enough to be employed given extra help?

People stuck on UC don't have lower utility bills either, or cheaper food bills, or rent holidays, or any chance of hanging on to a bricks-and-mortar asset, and I hate how divisive the furlough scheme is. But the blame for that lies squarely on the government's shoulders, not the people newly struggling. Giving them less wouldn't equate to a willingness to give everyone else who needs it a bit more.

If the elderly population want millions and millions of people to give up pretty much everything, so that they can live even further beyond their natural lifespan than they have already, surely it can’t be unreasonable to expect them to shoulder the bill?
Speechless!

Should we apply this to the obese who codt the nhs a lot more than those who are slim?

Funny how we are always quick to point the finger on the groups we dont relate to. The right definition of discrimination.

All those people on UC because they couldn't find work before covid, they're just as incapable of going to work now as the people who've been furloughed. Why are those who were lucky enough to be employed given extra help?
It's nothing to with luck. It's to do with having to adapt with a sudden drop of income. Those on UC will either experience no drop, on the opposite, they have received an increase anyway. Those on UC but working, with a drop of income will be able to claim more UC.

@1stV45 there is already a huge backlog of universal credit applications to means test everyone on furlough would add to this leaving people in difficulties as those without savings would have to go through the same process hence means testing!

I'm a higher tax payer and happily support taxes being spent on furlough. Furlough means a greater chance of potential recovery in sector rather then millions more people redundant. I do believe that universal credit does punish people any income of a partner above a very low rate is considered support..... NOPE people who have paid national insurance and taxes for years should be able to access the system they have been paying into.

Who the hell spends 30/40% of their wage on travel to work?!

Give your head a wobble, OP. They aren't furloughed because they want to be.

You run a house on 80% of your wage, it's fucking hard and I would have done anything to go back to work.

Give your head a wobble, OP. They aren't furloughed because they want to be. i know lots of people that are quite happy to get 9 percent at least of their take home pay 10 percent can easily go on commute

The money to fund this should be taken directly from the over 60s in the form of a new Covid tax, progressive in its nature like income taxhello
no the money for it should be increasing the tax for those that were on it only fair!

The issue with furlough and associated schemes assisting the self employed, is that it's open to abuse, and there aren't the resources to check up on it. So you have many companies claiming to have furloughed staff when those staff are still working (and have throughout), others who clearly don't need to furlough (all) staff as they are topping up salaries but are claiming it anyway, uneconomical/ failing businesses who are using furlough to delay the inevitable, people (self employed or employed) doing side work for cash and not declaring the income...

I'd be quite happy to be furloughed even on 50% of pay because it's basically an extended holiday, most of the furloughed I know have either spent it working for cash (and earning a lot more than they would otherwise) or sleeping/ watching Netflix!

I'm sure there are people who have been left in hardship but they are the minority imo.

Urm we still have bills to pay. Rent food heating. We aren't getting 80% wages and living bill free.

@TyroBurningDownTheCloset

I can see OP's point that hardship should be shared equally, but I'm with SheepandCow on this one.

Seems like there are a hell of a lot of people who don't give a shit when it's some other poor bastard supposed to make ends meet on £350 a month, but when it's personal, suddenly it's absolutely appalling that the government are expecting people to live on so little.

All those people on UC because they couldn't find work before covid, they're just as incapable of going to work now as the people who've been furloughed. Why are those who were lucky enough to be employed given extra help?

People stuck on UC don't have lower utility bills either, or cheaper food bills, or rent holidays, or any chance of hanging on to a bricks-and-mortar asset, and I hate how divisive the furlough scheme is. But the blame for that lies squarely on the government's shoulders, not the people newly struggling. Giving them less wouldn't equate to a willingness to give everyone else who needs it a bit more.

Sheepandcow’s point is a completely different one to the OP’s point

It’s extrapolating massively to assume that people who agree there needs to be a scheme now that pays at a higher level than current benefit rates to stop a mass drop of people into poverty, huge numbers of mortgage defaults etc, supported UC levels beforehand.

For many people it’s about (and sheepandcow ignored most people who said it) not adding even more people to the poverty cycle that UC causes.

Th

It's so hard when you are on a low income and furloughed makes it worse, especially this time of year. I spoke to somebody at work the other day (service user) who said they appreciated being in as they weren't having just one meal a day and weren't staying In bed to keep warm.

I would have agreed, but:

1. DH's industry (events) has been completely shut since March and there's no prospect of going back.

1. Furlough is capped, which means he's actually seen a 60% drop in salary. You may say 'boo hoo' but his/our outgoings haven't reduced.

1. Until the government get the GPs and civil servants back to work, they can kiss my ass and pay us something.

@dontdisturbmenow

All those people on UC because they couldn't find work before covid, they're just as incapable of going to work now as the people who've been furloughed. Why are those who were lucky enough to be employed given extra help? It's nothing to with luck. It's to do with having to adapt with a sudden drop of income. Those on UC will either experience no drop, on the opposite, they have received an increase anyway. Those on UC but working, with a drop of income will be able to claim more UC.

Erm, explain the reasoning behind your statement that people now on UC haven't experienced a drop in income. They have experienced an absolutely huge drop in income! Much, much, more than those on furlough. The the so called 'increase in UC' is an absolute joke and doesn't make the tinyest bit of difference to living standards.

I agree; we shouldn't add more people to the poverty cycle that is UC. The way to do this is to sort out UC so it's not a poverty cycle.

I find the OP quite insulting. We don’t all spend £5k+ a year commuting into London.

I think it actually costs me more to be on furlough rather than at work.
I walk to work and bring my own food in for lunch so don’t spend anything at all while there.
Being at home, I pay more electricity, the heating is on a bit more. That’s without thinking about how I’m going to try and spend my time as I don’t really just want to sit in front of the TV.

I don't think it should be 80% but I also don't think we should closing things down at all now so there should be no need for it, so there's that.

We couldn’t pay our outgoings if H was Furloughed. It is only 80 per cent up to a certain amount. We would be losing 50-60 per cent of our income. Travel is pennies so we haven’t saved anything on that but the cost of having extra electric and now heating on all day is adding up.

You have no idea what people's outgoings are. My DH was furloughed for 4 months on 80% pay. Our outgoings take up his normal wage. I can't work due to ill health. You obviously don't struggle to survive.

Those on UC will either experience no drop, on the opposite, they have received an increase anyway. Those on UC but working, with a drop of income will be able to claim more UC.

How do you know? Imagine if someone was told they had developed a serious condition like motor neurone disease or suffered life changing injuries in a car crash? They would have had no choice but to go on UC, when they had a mortgage, bills to pay, children to support and go through demeaning PIP assessments, where the assessors lie and cheat. According to Tory voters, that was ok for the last 10 years; but now its the furloughed, they expect preferential treatment and 80% of their wages, because the benefits that were good enough for other people, down on their luck, are not enough for them.

@Bouncycastle12

It seems weird that people are going to be furloughed for an entire year. Just feels like they could have done something more constructive with all those people’s time... not sure what though!

How patronising. I’m sure anyone furloughed would rather be at work. I tell you what they could do to give people something constructive to do - don’t shut all these businesses so people can carry on working. Sorry but I cannot believe you think like this, you think you have the right to tell people who are furloughed what they can do with their time. Get over yourself.

@wink1970

I would have agreed, but:

1. DH's industry (events) has been completely shut since March and there's no prospect of going back.

1. Furlough is capped, which means he's actually seen a 60% drop in salary. You may say 'boo hoo' but his/our outgoings haven't reduced.

1. Until the government get the GPs and civil servants back to work, they can kiss my ass and pay us something.

3: GPs and civil servants haven't stopped working! The majority of civil servants just aren't in a office for the majority of us our work has increased to crazy levels. Who do you think is implementing furlough, business loans, emergency finance.....

My dd and her partner are back on furlough, they both earn nmw in the service sector. They live in a house share together, they can't afford food. My ds who lives with me has lost his job due to the economic downturn in the finance industry, I'm now having to support him. I'm sending dd food parcels to help them manage. A fifth of their income is a huge loss when they are still recovering from the last furlough

Ummmm, @Madmummyto1, I know several people on furlough who are quite happy being paid a reasonable amount to do absolutely sweet FA. And frankly I think taxpayers - who are picking up the bill for all this - have every right to query whether or not it was sensible to not require some form of volunteering or training over this period. I’m self-employed, but don’t qualify for the support (like a lot of people) and I’ve had to do all sorts of things apart from my usual role in the past few months. It’s absolutely not unreasonable to suggest that this might have been a more sensible use of furloughed people’s time.

@Bouncycastle12 but if they are experts in their field why do they have to do training? They might be enjoying the break, but a lot of them aren’t, you can’t please all of the people all of the tjme